Hellraiser test drive.....

[Glenn Fricker]

Ok gang, here's my first studio experimentation with my brand new Schecter Hellraiser. It's miced using the "Nordstrom Technique" as it's become known around here....

Sorry for the sloppy playing, but my chops ain't what they used to be.


CLIP LINK


Here's the link to the original thread for those of you who didn't read it... The link is also posted there as the clip covers 2 subjects: Hellraisers & dual 57's.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/andy-sneap/221136-clayman-sound.html

-0z-

 

[JeffTD]

Holy crap, that sounds absolutely badass!

What amp, and only 2 tracks?

It's amazing how much a solid guitar can make a difference!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

It's a 5150, quad tracked.

 

[Ermz]

Thanks Glen, for reminding me, and quite probably many others on here, why our Hellraisers kick ass.

 

[Kromann]

It's a 5150, quad tracked.

IAAAAAAAAAAA (Insane eighties scream) that sounds absolutely SICK - what a fat monster sound man!

How the h... did you get that tone? Amp settings? Tubescreamer? How did you find the sweet spots for the mics - I guess the on axis mic kinda places it self - but how did you find the exact spot for the 45 degree off axis one? How close did put the mics - in the grill or did you remove the grill to get the mics closer?

Cheers!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

IAAAAAAAAAAA (Insane eighties scream) that sounds absolutely SICK - what a fat monster sound man!

How the h... did you get that tone? Amp settings? Tubescreamer? How did you find the sweet spots for the mics - I guess the on axis mic kinda places it self - but how did you find the exact spot for the 45 degree off axis one? How close did put the mics - in the grill or did you remove the grill to get the mics closer?

Cheers!

Thanks man! How did I get the sound? About a year's worth of ripping my hair out & experimenting! I'm NOT using an Ibanez tubescreamer. That just kills the guitar's bandwidth. I'm using a Maxon OD808. There's a pic of the cab miked up on the "clayman" thread if you want to see how it's done.

-0z-

 

[KeithRT99]

that sounds huge. good job

 

[JBroll]

I'm NOT using an Ibanez tubescreamer. That just kills the guitar's bandwidth. I'm using a Maxon OD808.

Hmm, the 808 is basically built around a JRC4558 with the distorting diode in the op-amp's feedback loop, with proper filtering and the typical EQ response... silly question, how is that not a tubescreamer?

Jeff

 

[Razorjack]

Hmm, the 808 is basically built around a JRC4558 with the distorting diode in the op-amp's feedback loop, with proper filtering and the typical EQ response... silly question, how is that not a tubescreamer?

Jeff

Just to back Oz up here.

You can be as technical about it as you like, but the OD808 sounds more open than any of the Tubescreamers Ibanez have produced.

I did a shoot out the other week at work with the TS-7, TS-9, TS-808 (reissue), OD-808 and OD-820 and that's the one thing all my work mates agreed with me on.

 

[fistula]

yeah man i like your sound - its great
IMHO besides one thing - kickdrum
in your mixes is so liquid... i like more dry sound - when it hits "in a head"
but this is what I like) hehe
nice work! indeed

 

[Nitronium Blood]

Really awesome!

 

[musickey]

Very nice man

Let me ask you this, when you quad track do you use less gain on all the tracks? or 2 tracks with most of the gain and 2 with little gain for note distinction? just wondering man becouse i have a 5150 and a Triple Recto and cant get a tone like that! there is something im not understanding and im using the on/off axis micing.
Does the Maxon make that big of a difference

 

[JBroll]

Just to back Oz up here.

You can be as technical about it as you like, but the OD808 sounds more open than any of the Tubescreamers Ibanez have produced.

I did a shoot out the other week at work with the TS-7, TS-9, TS-808 (reissue), OD-808 and OD-820 and that's the one thing all my work mates agreed with me on.

Erm, that would be component differences (excepting the 820, which I don't know as much about) and not design differences - the OD808 and the TS-808 shouldn't be different circuits and the TS-7 and the TS-9 are identical circuits (and only two resistors away from an 808, a mod that I can easily show anyone) so, 'open' or not, unless a complete and catastrophic nervous breakdown has sucked away a substantial portion of my life and replaced it with a hallucination where up is bacon and 808s are not TubeScreamers, my statement stands.

Jeff

 

[Massili]

holy shit, that's amazing!!! it sounds very big!!! what's the secret to get "big" sonds like that... the mix sounds huge as fuck!!! i just compared it to others tests and it sounds really "huge" and the others "small"!!! congrats man...very nice tone!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

yeah man i like your sound - its great
IMHO besides one thing - kickdrum
in your mixes is so liquid... i like more dry sound - when it hits "in a head"
but this is what I like) hehe
nice work! indeed

Thanks for the compliment! The kick issue is simple. It's a real kick. Just EQ & compression on it.

-0z-

 

[Glenn Fricker]

JBroll, let me further clarify the tubescreamer issue:

I originally started working with this mic technique over a year ago with an Ibanez TS-9. The dual mic setup uses 57's in such a way that they work against each other in certain frequencies, cancelling them. The TS-9, killed the extreme top & bottom of the guitar sound all on it's own. When used in conjunction with the dual 57 technique, the effect became overkill & the sound was unuseable IMHO. I worked on this for 3 days straight before figuring out that removing the TS-9 was the key.

Here's where it gets interesting: I recently acquired a Maxon Od808. This thing sounds worlds apart from the TS-9. The Ibanez tubescreamer I was so adamant about NOT using was the TS-9: Sorry if you misunderstood. Unlike the TS-9, the OD808 works beautifully with this technique.... it doesn't shrink the guitar's bandwidth the way a TS-9 seems to.
I haven't tried using a TS808 yet.... I've never come across one! I do have an MXR ZW-44 I'm itching to try out with this method, though. Again, different pedal, different sound. I don't know if it'll work or not, but I'll give it a shot next week & post it.

I must stress, this is all based on what I'm hearing through my ears & not on what a schematic says. You might find you have the opposite result. However, I must thank the forum members for pointing me in the right direction, otherwise I would never have even heard of Maxon!

 

[Glenn Fricker]

Very nice man

Let me ask you this, when you quad track do you use less gain on all the tracks? or 2 tracks with most of the gain and 2 with little gain for note distinction? just wondering man becouse i have a 5150 and a Triple Recto and cant get a tone like that! there is something im not understanding and im using the on/off axis micing.
Does the Maxon make that big of a difference

Thank you, sir! Basically, the amp is set the same for all tracks. No variations. Same goes for channel EQ on mixdown as well. The Maxon OD808 makes all the difference. Set your amp gain so that you're just starting to saturate, then kick in the Maxon for the extra boost. You'll find the bottom end doesn't jump around like mad, unlike what your amp will sound like when you crank the gain way up.

I'll be honest, the dual 57 on/off technique (can we just call it the Fredman technique? It's less keystrokes!) is not easy to master. It took me a year. Some guys got it much faster, as they're more talented!!! (Brett, ya goddamn French bastard! ) Then again, it wasn't an 'every day' thing for me, either. I worked on it when I got the chance, which wasn't often. There's one piece of advice I can give you though: Stay the hell away from the Ibanez TS-9!!! It won't work with this technique! I wish someone told me that!

That, & make sure the guitar you're using is a nice heavy chunk of wood. If you check out my myspace page & listen to the "Dreams Destruction" tracks, they're miked using the exact same technique. Unfortunately, they're playing a thinbody Ibanez. The title of this thread was "Hellraiser testdrive" for a reason. Same amps, mics (in the exact same position), preamps, you name it. Different guitar. Major difference.

Best of luck with it! Perserverance is the key!

-0z-

 

[JBroll]

It may be that the Ibanez was a shit pedal, but an OD808 is a TS808 with possibly higher-quality components inside it. If you want, I can show you how to make that TS9 into an 808, but the differences between 808 and 9 are so small compared to a TS and a non-TS drive pedal that I'm thinking this sounds a bit funny.

That aside, there is a difference because you're using such a hefty chunk of wood - I love my Schecter too, and as soon as I get a second preamp and cables I'm going to start putting Fredman clips together.

Jeff

 

[GuitarHack]

.....The Maxon OD808 makes all the difference. Set your amp gain so that you're just starting to saturate, then kick in the Maxon for the extra boost. You'll find the bottom end doesn't jump around like mad, unlike what your amp will sound like when you crank the gain way up.....

Nice tone dude.

Off to order my Maxon OD 808 now.

 

[Glenn Fricker]

If you want, I can show you how to make that TS9 into an 808, but the differences between 808 and 9 are so small compared to a TS and a non-TS drive pedal that I'm thinking this sounds a bit funny.

Jeff

I sold my TS-9.

I might very well have had a shitty TS9. For single or straight on double mics, it was fine, but for Fredman technique, is most defintitley was working against what I wanted to achieve. YMMV, but it certainly caused me some grief.

-0z-