help mixing guitars for the first time (ofc they sound like shit)

[Dexter_prog]

Ok. So I am mixing guitars for the first time. I've read some tips here saying that EQ on guitars should be applied during the mix, with the other instruments. So I tried that but they still sound very shitty. I'm not even sure if the tone sounds ok to begin with. I've rendered this clips. Any help? Everything is very raw, by the way, drums have little processing, but I suppose bass is almost done (or should be).

If also someone could post an example of how guitars should sound before post-precessing and after post processing (preferably guitars only or guitars + bass only) it would be awesome.

mix
guitars + bass
bass+ guitars (no bus)
guitars
guitars (no bus)


note: bus = EQ on guitars group channel

DIs:
guitar LEFT

guitar RIGHT


edit 1:

more highs

 

[Norris-wf]

Just my two cents, but your guitar tone seems to be lacking all the high end and is very muddy sounding instead of sounding crisp. Thats just my take on it, maybe I just prefer guitar that way...

 

[veronicafalls]

how did you record the guitars and bass?

 

[Dexter_prog]

guitars are DI: tubescreamer + 8505 + lecab (recabinet mesa impulses).

Bass is my guitar pitch-shifted with the technique in this post: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/8466651-post3.html

So, Norris, you are saying I should raise the highs?

Here's the original song, for some tone reference maybe:

I want to get my guitars to sound like that (not exactly copying the tone, but getting them to sound as blended in as they sound there)

 

[Teddyboy]

I think it need more highs-presence. Would you like to post th DI guitars so we can give a try?

 

[Norris-wf]

Thanks for posting the original. It's handy for comparing. On comparison I would definintely be inclined to up the highs on the tone from what I can hear and then see how it sounds. For the chord stabs at 0.12 there seems to be more treble on the original song than in yours. At least thats what it sounds like to me. How many guitars did you record in the "mix" sample?

 

[Dexter_prog]

I think it need more highs-presence. Would you like to post th DI guitars so we can give a try?

Sure!. Make sure to let me know what you use for whatever tone you get:

guitar LEFT

guitar RIGHT

(they should be uploaded in some seconds)

Thanks for posting the original. It's handy for comparing. On comparison I would definintely be inclined to up the highs on the tone from what I can hear and then see how it sounds. For the chord stabs at 0.12 there seems to be more treble on the original song than in yours. At least thats what it sounds like to me. How many guitars did you record in the "mix" sample?

The reason I didn't up the highs was because I felt that if I did the tone in the mix would sound even shittier, I am probably wrong.
On that stabs part there's also some weird distorted sound (maybe a bass playing a B note repetedly with lots of distortion?). What could that be?

I recorded 2 guitar tracks (as you can see on the DIs posted above)

 

[Dexter_prog]

So I raised the highs on both guitars. I also edited and quantized the stabs to make them sound cleaner. Any better?:

http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1643345/...kfall - Source (drums + bass+ guitars) 27.mp3

And by the way, is there a less-retarded way to edit this kind of start-stop riffs other than dynamic splitting, shortening a little, quantizing, adding fade out* to each segment (everything done to all segments at the same time)?

* to minimize harmonics as I mute the strings on some parts

 

[ATLA]

maybe boost a bit from 1khz-2.5khz or you could try like 8-9khz..

 

[DestroyTheColossus]

Im thinking this is more of a problem with the amp settings than with mixing. I don't use amp sims, but I have heard some great tones that some forumers have made with the 8505. I would start there and try to get the settings right on the amp sim and impulses before trying to mix it with EQ.

 

[JGolden]

I agree that the amp settings should be tweaked first. But if you are going to EQ, rather than boosting highs, I think more attention should be put on attenuating the wooly low mids. This is also a good candidate for using multiband compression to focus on that area and clear things up.

 

[Teddyboy]

Ok Dexter,here's my try http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1816216/Duskfall Guitars - Teddyboy Test.mp3
I hope you like it. I used the new LePou Engl Sim with Boogex (catharsis1on8pres) and slight Eq.
You have to consider that the bass plays a very big role in the whole sound and without it you'll sound weird,empty,etc.
Tell me what you think of the sound and I'l post setting if you want them
Cheers

 

[Nuno Filipe]

What DI box do you have? I think the problem may be the quality of the DI´s or the preamp.

 

[Dexter_prog]

Ok Dexter,here's my try http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1816216/Duskfall Guitars - Teddyboy Test.mp3
I hope you like it. I used the new LePou Engl Sim with Boogex (catharsis1on8pres) and slight Eq.
You have to consider that the bass plays a very big role in the whole sound and without it you'll sound weird,empty,etc.
Tell me what you think of the sound and I'l post setting if you want them
Cheers

Here's with bass and drums
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/1643345/source/guitars help/The Duskfall - Source (mix with tedd) 27.mp3

Gutiars sound closer to the original tone during the stabs, but on the chords before they sound too crispy. Could the original song have different settings during those 2 parts?

I just realized that the stabs last a little longer in the original song, I'll have to re-record them.
By the way, have you listened to the other clip I posted on post #8?

What DI box do you have? I think the problem may be the quality of the DI´s or the preamp.

No DI box. I'm using a Presonus Firebox

 

[Dalinkwent48@aim.com]

And by the way, is there a less-retarded way to edit this kind of start-stop riffs other than dynamic splitting, shortening a little, quantizing, adding fade out* to each segment (everything done to all segments at the same time)?

throw a gate on it that might help a little bit

 

[Dexter_prog]

throw a gate on it that might help a little bit

I tried, but I couldn't get to set it up properly :/

 

[Dalinkwent48@aim.com]

its a little bit more work but it might be a good idea to track the start/stop riff seperatly with the gate...just keeps adjusting it till it doesnt pick up the feedback from stopping the strings with your hands...the end result might have a more natural feel then doing all that other editing that your doing

 

[AEL89]

Fuck a gate. Print the guitars to a new track then cut and fade

 

[Dexter_prog]

Teddy, could you post the settings?

Here's another clip with a tone similar to yours. I switched to Le456 for a more gainy sound and changed the impulses to ones closer to the edge (still Recabinet impulses). Does it sound any better?

 

[Teddyboy]

Here's what I used:
Le456 (High Gain,Low 6,Mid 10,High 6,Contour 5,Focus On,Bright On - actual settings,not o'clock)
Boogex (Catharsis 1on-pres8)
ReaXcomp (andy's c4 settings into Reaper's Multiband Compressor)

Guitar Bus EQ : the usual HP-LP (80 & 12000),2 dbs boost at 400 and 2.5k and 2 dbs cut at 800

That's it. Have in mind though,that the distorted bass does the whole job in that mix...
I'm glad you liked the tone. Finish the recordings of that cover and post the tracks so we can try mixing it!
Cheers!