Help with scales, confused

[cannibal corpse]

I use all-guitar-chords.com for all my chord and scale needs, but I noticed something, when I ... let's say want to write a solo in the key of E and I'll be using the Harmonic Minor scale, press "position: 12" and press OK, I get a E Harmonic Minor scale based around the 12th fret, but if I change the position to let's say 11, it's a completely different scale, moved down one fret but by no means the same scale only 1 fret down, my question is how the hell can I know what notes change when I move a position and / or is it possible to remember this formula easily. Thanks.

 

[Alcaline]

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking here. No notes of a scale will change when you change position. The harmonic minor scale contains 7 notes that stay the same no matter where you are on the fretboard.

Perhaps the most efficient way for guitarists to approch a scale is through three note per string shapes. The harmonic minor scale can be broken into seven different shapes starting on each degree of the scale. It is a good idea to learn each of these shapes by heart but also be aware of what scale degree and note name you are playing as you run through them.

Usefully, each scale position if treated as the tonic or starting point becomes a new mode of harmonic minor.

 

[cannibal corpse]

http://all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=12&scch=E&scchnam=Phrygian&get2=Get&t=0&choice=1

E Phrygian Scale 12th position

http://all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php?qqq=11&scch=E&scchnam=Phrygian&get2=Get&t=0&choice=1

E Phrygian Scale 11th position

See the difference? Those aren't the same notes moved down, and if this site is just crap, does anyone know a better one?

 

[Alcaline]

Those are, in fact, the same notes.

E phrygian goes -

E F G A B C D E

So, if your starting position is on the 12th fret of the low E string, the lowest note you can play in that position will be E.

Now, the next position down will start on the 7th note of the scale, in this example that will be D. The root note of the scale is still E, its just in this position, you are able to play the D below it as well.

So, the only difference between the two positions is that in the first example you can play up to G on the first string whereas in the second you can play the low D on the 6th, but only up to the F on the first string before changing position. All other notes are exactly the same.

 

[cannibal corpse]

Wow, I didn't realise. thanks, so, I just mess with the patterns until I find a pattern that I find easiest to play, and just shift that up and down?

EDIT: If I choose Pattern = 0, it definately isn't the same notes as the one with Pattern = 12, any particular reason? or maybe it's different positions for the scale based around the E, and then another one for the other E?

 

[Alcaline]

Okay, you seem to be thinking in terms of finger patters and not notes.

Look at the note names on the chart. No matter what position you select in E phrygian it will always contain the notes E F G A B C and D. There are no sharps or flats in the scale.

 

[razoredge]

which is the key of C, modes make no sence to me due to this, why is that ?

 

[Alcaline]

The key of C, though it has the same notes as E phrygian has a different set of intervals due to the tonic being C rather than E.

So the intervals of E phrygian are H W W W H W W rather than W W H W W W H which is C major.

The best way to hear this is to just play the C major scale over a C drone, then play the same notes over an E drone. You'll naturally gravitate towards the E rather than the C and so it becomes E phrygian.

 

[cannibal corpse]

Cause the Phrygian scale sounds alike to the C Major scale, and if you play the Phrygian scale over C Major chord, it sounds like a C Major scale, but if you play the Phrygian scale over E Minor chord, it sounds "Phrygian".

I think.

EDIT: What Alcaline said. <_<

 

[razoredge]

Then does this mean that all modes are what ever the actually key is, only rooted on what ever chord is being improved over at the time ? Then becoming such and such a mode ? Like I said it always confused me, I'd start learning the note positions of a mode and then think to myself... "well thats just the key of _ "