Hey American Homophobes

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/my-evangelical-wilderness
If you haven't watched Jesus Camp or any of the religious documentaries on NetFlixs, you need to now.

Alright, I'm heading into rant mode; Theology student here! Specializing in the sociology/anthropology of religious separatists residing in the Americas! Skimmed/super read everything in here, but I'm going to throw in mah 2 cents. I, for one, have a huge problem with how some sects treat the study and interpretation of scripture, but my biggest issues lie within the economic hierarchy of organized religion. As a religious scholar and a Jewish convert, I will be the first to say, that most majors religions no longer behave overtly as humanitarian outreach, but rather as a business. Cash-moneyz and tax-free domain have created a corporate entity out of something that was originally intended to guide the masses on a moral and ethical path with regards to locality and dominate culture. The biggest issue with biblical zealots and religious extremism is that most scripture absorbed in a cut throat, present-day manner of interpretation. There is little regard for the language of translation (which is a MASSIVE issue in the English translation of the Old and New Testament), historical circumstance, ethnic groupings, tribal boundaries, etc. when reading religious texts. Unfortunately, these crucial elements are NOT taught in the modern tradition of scriptural reasoning, despite the fact that they give the Bible shape and context; not everything is meant to be taken on a literary. During the Middle Ages, Torah study strongly encouraged that Jewish scholars theorize and question the Torah and Talmud (Oral Law) Scholars were expected to write midrashm, basically a telling of what happened between disjointed texts in the Torah, i.e. "What did Joseph see when he was thrown in a pit for 2 days?", "What did fruit Adam and Eve consume?" On top of that, most events in the scripture are written from a secondary source, certain books are pulled, inserted etc. Fuck, people even disregard valid commentary from sages, priests, rabbis, imams! Knowing foreign languages, history, and anthropology, (even as a Jew) I will say, modern day religion, especially in the conservative sense, is not done right. But it's easier to lead a blind flock than one that can see the field. It's easier to manage a mass of drones than a group of enlightened thinkers.

Also in addition of morality politics and imposing social conditions upon the public, Evangelicals and conservative Christians really need to stay out of the issue of Zionism. Most are extremely uneducated with regards to Judaism and Islam and the history, cultures that preceed them.The Duggar family trip to Israel was a totally embarrassment for Christian community as well as the American populous. I could rage more, but I think the vein on my temple just burst.
 
JHA said:
You realise there is about 2.2 billion Christians in the world? That's a third of the world's population. One million is less than 0.05% of that. You should also know that there are a lot of different groups all calling themselves Christians with different beliefs while they might have nothing in common. I don't know what group are you talking about since obviously you think they are all the same. I'm willing to bet most Christians don't even go to church other than weddings and funerals. Yes, you are generalizing. Btw. did you know Tom Araya from Slayer is Catholic? :headbang:
You clearly have failed to read or understand what I've said or this news story. If it offends you that I identify people who self identify as Christian as Christian then you should complain to them and not me.
 
You realise there is about 2.2 billion Christians in the world?

This is an absolute horseshit statistic. I'm technically counted as a Catholic, and subsequently a Christian. It would be quite difficult for me to remove my name from that registry; same goes for anyone else who was raised in a specific parish or baptized at all.
 
You clearly have failed to read or understand what I've said or this news story. If it offends you that I identify people who self identify as Christian as Christian then you should complain to them and not me.
Well, you and some of the others here clearly have no idea what you're talking about when you talk about "Christians". Obviously the US is full of all kind of exremists but it has nothing to do with Christianity, it's the people. A homophopic is a homophobic no matter if he's religious or atheist.
 
I think I already addressed this. If liberal Christians don't like or want to be represented by the ultra conservatives then feel free to publicly take your religion back but I haven't said anything that isn't factually true.
It's pretty funny to me because I haven't once said "every" or "all." That is your sensitivity and not my words. I'd be willing to wager that I'm much more aware of the granular differences in denominations than you'd expect.
I'm still baffled by how pointing this out is offensive:
an idea taught in Christian churches, backed almost exclusively by self identified Christians (baptist, Methodist, evangelical, catholic, Presbyterian, etc.) became an amendment with the majority of voters in my state.

Clearly they aren't outliers here as the managed a dominant majority in a statewide election.
If you need me to point out that I know several Christians who voted against I will. If you need me to reiterate that this is NC, USA I guess I'll state that too. But at the end of the day there are more Christians in NC who want to legislate against homosexuality than there are Christians, atheists and agnostics combined who oppose it.
If you find the picture that paints offensive it isn't because of some prejudice I have. It literally just happened.
Your argument about the individual bigot vs the systemic indictment fails to hold water b/c in this case the churches were the keystone to the entire movement. Of course that doesn't make the entire religion complicit but surely I can identify them as Christians.
 
None of this addresses the fact that Christianity is homophobic by default; every religion based on the old Testament that hasn't specifically renounced its teachings (and yes, Jesus did specifically state they should be followed) is homophobic.
 
None of this addresses the fact that Christianity is homophobic by default; every religion based on the old Testament that hasn't specifically renounced its teachings (and yes, Jesus did specifically state they should be followed) is homophobic.

I've recently entertained the thought that these Old Testament religions and their traditions and rules are actually keys to survival (albeit not particularly well-executed). I'm not trying to be homophobic, but gay is probably not the best way to go in terms of procreation. Fasting every once in a while is probably good, as well as the usual rules such as don't steal, cheat on wife, etc.

Of course there is also the more accepted argument that these are good rules to control people with.

However, theoretically, if everyone were to strictly follow Christian, Islamic, or Jewish beliefs and rules, the world might be a more orderly place. Probably more boring as well. And the music certainly wouldn't be as good. I think.
 
I totally agree for the most part, although I'm not sure that God commanding rape, genocide, murder, torture, or priests performing womb-destroying abortions or that one being required to marry their rapist qualifies as "keys to survival." :lol:
 
Good points but there may be a survival element to things like not working on the Sabbath.

The one that gets me though is the fasting. My totally unempirical observation is that people who fast in the spring tend to have good complexions. That's just a personal observation that got me wondering.

On Topic, that being said I don't really see any harm in one guy sticking his dick in another man's ass. It's absolutely disgusting to me and I don't understand where the enjoyment comes from. But I really don't see how that is going to harm anyone so long as it's consensual and I don't have to see it.
 
Genius Gone Insane said:
On Topic, that being said I don't really see any harm in one guy sticking his dick in another man's ass. It's absolutely disgusting to me and I don't understand where the enjoyment comes from. But I really don't see how that is going to harm anyone so long as it's consensual and I don't have to see it.

Yeah it seems everyone who's posted so far can agree with this, but apparently a big majority in many parts of the world don't, apparently some people feel it's their duty to tell others how to handle their sex lives "for their own good".

On your other points though, dude, your just insane :lol: the fasting might make a bit of sense, but if you look at everything else, does that really hold enough weight in balance with everything else to be remotely considered an acceptable theory? Sometimes I feel you give weird theories just for people to call you crazy.
 
I think I already addressed this. If liberal Christians don't like or want to be represented by the ultra conservatives then feel free to publicly take your religion back but I haven't said anything that isn't factually true.
It's pretty funny to me because I haven't once said "every" or "all." That is your sensitivity and not my words. I'd be willing to wager that I'm much more aware of the granular differences in denominations than you'd expect.
I'm still baffled by how pointing this out is offensive:
an idea taught in Christian churches, backed almost exclusively by self identified Christians (baptist, Methodist, evangelical, catholic, Presbyterian, etc.) became an amendment with the majority of voters in my state.

Clearly they aren't outliers here as the managed a dominant majority in a statewide election.
If you need me to point out that I know several Christians who voted against I will. If you need me to reiterate that this is NC, USA I guess I'll state that too. But at the end of the day there are more Christians in NC who want to legislate against homosexuality than there are Christians, atheists and agnostics combined who oppose it.
If you find the picture that paints offensive it isn't because of some prejudice I have. It literally just happened.
Your argument about the individual bigot vs the systemic indictment fails to hold water b/c in this case the churches were the keystone to the entire movement. Of course that doesn't make the entire religion complicit but surely I can identify them as Christians.
See, you are automatically assuming I'm a religious person and putting me in a group. Well I am not. Did you count how many atheists and other groups voted yes? Or do you have a figure how many atheists in the US do not accept homosexuality? Just asking because I think this issue has nothing to do with religions and more to do how people think in general. Btw. aren't both Christianity and Islam derived from the Jewish religion, shouldn't we blame them for all the wrong that is happening in the world? :D
 
Did you count how many atheists and other groups voted yes? Or do you have a figure how many atheists in the US do not accept homosexuality? Just asking because I think this issue has nothing to do with religions and more to do how people think in general.

We can talk once you present a reasonable secular argument against marriage equality.
 
Yeah it seems everyone who's posted so far can agree with this, but apparently a big majority in many parts of the world don't, apparently some people feel it's their duty to tell others how to handle their sex lives "for their own good".

On your other points though, dude, your just insane :lol: the fasting might make a bit of sense, but if you look at everything else, does that really hold enough weight in balance with everything else to be remotely considered an acceptable theory? Sometimes I feel you give weird theories just for people to call you crazy.

Well, that's actually nice to see that at least a couple people here actually read some of the crazy shit I put up here, even if you don't agree. I am not trying to attract attention to myself.

To clarify, I am not trying to persuade you folks to believe that these religions are keys to survival. I am only pointing out that it is an interesting theory. And it's more plausible than it may sound at first.

3,000 years ago people had a much longer train of thought than we do now (thanks TV btw) and I'm sure that in many respects they used their brains better. That's how they built the pyramids and shit, probably.

And they may have been smart enough to recognize that fasting helps, so they incorporated fasting into religion.

Jews (and other religions) don't eat certain meat unless it's been killed a certain way. That sounds ridiculous to some of us now but back then there may have been a logical merit to eating kosher stuff. Maybe pig is healthier to eat when it dies a certain way. Has that ever even been studied?

And going back on topic, more people are harder to conquer than less people. So it was good for people to fuck and have kids to increase the population. Gay people would not have helped that aspect of survival. Maybe that's where homophobia originated. Well, that and also that it's disgusting :).

You heard it here first: God made us in his image and I wonder if that means God is a virus like us. (That's from a new song of mine so don't even think about stealing that shit lol).

:kickass:
 
Or punishments for getting tattoos, eating shellfish, working on the Sabbath or getting a perm don't really qualify as rules to maintain order, do they?

In Judaism, there are 7 commandments that were first given to Noah after the flood, and then reiterated to Moses that all people must observe in order to be respected by the Jewish community: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_laws
1. Believe in one G-d
2. Do not disrespect G-d
3. Do not commit adultery
4. Do not steal
6. Do not eat the flesh of an animal while it is still alive
7. Establish a system of justice to enforce these laws
Then with the 10 commandments, honor the Sabbath, honor your parents and certain tenants of monotheism are established.

From there, Jews honor (on varying levels) an extra 613 minor commandments that are taken stated in the text of the Hebrew Bible (i.e., putting a mezzuzah on your doorpost, kosher law [which ranges from food prep, how to dress, to when you can have sex and with who] to laws governing Jewish holidays to how to divide subplots of land for farming in Israel) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

Basically Orthodox and right of Orthodox (Haredi, Chasidic) try to fulfill all these commandments when applicable. Some Modern Orthodox and left of that do what they can on a situational level, or whatever works with modernity.

The Sabbath is a way of maintaing social control as well as honoring tradition. In the course I took this semester on the 19th century shtetl, we went over how those that didn't observe Sabbatical law could be pretty much ostracized from the community. If you weren't at shul Saturday morning, you were as good as a goy :lol:

The view on tattoos today vary a lot. Most people do say tattoos are off limits because of HaShoah (Holocaust). I vary in my Jewish-ness, but I'll probably get a tattoo within the next year or so. As I interpret it, as long as you aren't defacing your body (body=temple, nothing vulgar), it's fine. Depending on the rabbi you consult, they may give you a different answer. Also, there's an amazing documentary about tattoos and religion, one segment including a tattooed former gutter-punk who went Satmar Hasid.

Getting a perm maybe more of a question of kosher law, I'm not sure. And shellfish, pork, kosher slaughter, not mixing meat and dairy was more of health thing in Biblical times. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosher_law


Come to me with your Jew questions!!! I will try to answer them to the best of my ability :)
 
Oh! And fasting is done because:
A) Does clean your system out to a certain degree, sense of atonement (fast for Yom Kippur, day before Purim, night of your wedding, etc.)
B) Not eating for 26 hours = altered state of consciousness = closer to G-d and being able to handle Yom Kippur prayers.
 
Hahahah! Yes, yes, yes, blame the JEWS... :Smug:
OK, it was meant to be sarcastic... But it's no different from "blame the Christians" or "blame the Islamics" or "blame the gays". Just to be clear, I have no problems with any of those I just think it's silly to blame some religion because people are being silly in North Carolina.