hey JayKeely

[MadeInNewJersey]

College students are poor. But they're poorer in countries that demand they pay for their own college tuition.

Entry to university should be based on qualification, not bank balance. Every single person is entitled to a government funded education to ANY university they wish to go to (provided they qualify). But I digress....

To all you students - EuroRail is the way to go! Or backpacking around Australia is fun too.

It's somewhat this way in the U.S. now anyways. Though most people wind up having to take out financial aid loans, there are still a plethora of academic scholarships available to the needy who deserve to attend. The ones who get screwed in the U.S. are the middle-class, whose families make too much money to qualify for substantial aid and not enough to afford even a decent school (normally). It's a fucked-up system at times.

Never thought I'd say this, but thank god I was in a car accident at age 11, or I wouldn't have been able to afford my first 2 years of college.

 

[Dark One]

It's somewhat this way in the U.S. now anyways. Though most people wind up having to take out financial aid loans, there are still a plethora of academic scholarships available to the needy who deserve to attend. The ones who get screwed in the U.S. are the middle-class, whose families make too much money to qualify for substantial aid and not enough to afford even a decent school (normally). It's a fucked-up system at times.

I could go own for hours about how f'ed up the higher education system is. In a nutshell, I believe high school is truly the time for general education. College and beyond is where you study to obtain expertise in the field you're going to be working in. A couple of electives? Fine, but more than 75% of coursework is based on subject matters that have an indirect impact on your future jobs. Less general coursework = less courses = less money = more accessibility. Will that EVER happen? Of course not. Institutes of higher education are just as greedy as everyone else.

Never thought I'd say this, but thank god I was in a car accident at age 11, or I wouldn't have been able to afford my first 2 years of college.

Damn, I'll have to ask you about that sometime man.

 

[NAD]

I'll admit I was anti-GE when I first started college, but honestly it's the only way I found my major. I only took that class on American gov't because it was required, little did I know I'd be walking out of it a political science major.

Concerning high school: other than my art history and calculus classes, it wasn't worth a damn. That's where reform is necessary in our education system. Of course, California education is 49th in the country, I don't know how it is outside of here.

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

I could go own for hours about how f'ed up the higher education system is. In a nutshell, I believe high school is truly the time for general education. College and beyond is where you study to obtain expertise in the field you're going to be working in. A couple of electives? Fine, but more than 75% of coursework is based on subject matters that have an indirect impact on your future jobs. Less general coursework = less courses = less money = more accessibility. Will that EVER happen? Of course not. Institutes of higher education are just as greedy as everyone else.

Actually, I think this is quite the opposite. If you're someone who intends [or intended] to go to college to figure out what you were going to do or study while there, then yup, you're right. You wasted a shitload of time taking ridiculously useless classes. If you had a plan already and applied to a specific program or school within a university, you more than likely jumped right into core subject matter material. For example, I applied for the Communications School within Ithaca College and was taking 70% related courses my first semester freshman year. I never understood people who entered college/university with the major of "liberal arts." What a waste of money.

Damn, I'll have to ask you about that sometime man.

It's actually pretty simple. I was 11, in the passenger seat of my mother's car on the way home from my grandmother's house (wearing a 3/4 sleeve black & blue Def Leppard 'Pyromania' shirt no less) when some old fool who probably should have had his drivers license revoked sometime past the age of collecting social security ran a stop sign, we t-boned him and that was that. I went through the windshield, broke my nose, received 88 micro-plastic surgery stitches in my face, 16 in my knee and a concussion. We sued his dumb ass and we won. I was "awarded" with enough money to cover 2 years of college. I should have gotten more, but my lawyer sucked eggs. That's why I'm so ornery today.

 

[lizard]

Political Science major here, with minor in history!!!
(absolutely useless from a practical standpoint)

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

...unless you're going to become a professor, smoke pot with your classes and sleep with nubile 19-year-olds who need at least C+'s to stay in school.

In which case, it's a great major.

 

[haddsie]

It's somewhat this way in the U.S. now anyways. Though most people wind up having to take out financial aid loans, there are still a plethora of academic scholarships available to the needy who deserve to attend. The ones who get screwed in the U.S. are the middle-class, whose families make too much money to qualify for substantial aid and not enough to afford even a decent school (normally). It's a fucked-up system at times.

Sorry, I have to disagree here. There are far more students that need money than there are scholarships and aid to go around. And if you're dependent on aid for the entire cost, you're usually limited to the crap schools. The more money you have, the better education you get. That's the way it goes for the vast majority of the people in this country. And that applies before you even get to undergrad level. Obviously, students from low-income areas, don't have the educational opportunities to put them on a "college track" as kids from wealthier areas do. Kids who grow up poor know from an early age that college isn't really an option. Most of the time they are not encouraged to do well enough in school to compete for academic scholarships because the budgets in their school districts are so tight that there is no room for the individualized attention that would be needed (i.e. informed guidance counselors, etc.). Can you tell I'm bitter and will be paying off my loans for the rest of my life?

 

[MadeInNewJersey]

Well, I'm not exactly following your argument, because it covers 2 distinctly different areas of this conversation.

* the poor people debate
* the availability of aid

Going back to the availability for aid, I came from a wealthy upper middle-class (read: white) suburb of NYC and more than 75% of people received a decent amount of aid, at least paramount to 1/2 their educational expenses.

"Poor kids" are not going to get academic scholarships to places like Tufts @ 34K per year, but then again, why would they want to be there? As far as only have "crap schools" available to them, there's where I really have to disagree. With the exception of the bumblefuck south (and New York State), most state school systems are far beyond average and provide excellent educations as well as a far more diverse living & learning environment. The argument could easily be made that "poor kids" will have a far better and far easier time adjusting to higher education in these larger schools anyway.

And FWIW, I'm still paying off my student loans as well.

 

[Dark One]

Actually, I think this is quite the opposite. If you're someone who intends [or intended] to go to college to figure out what you were going to do or study while there, then yup, you're right. You wasted a shitload of time taking ridiculously useless classes. If you had a plan already and applied to a specific program or school within a university, you more than likely jumped right into core subject matter material. For example, I applied for the Communications School within Ithaca College and was taking 70% related courses my first semester freshman year. I never understood people who entered college/university with the major of "liberal arts." What a waste of money.

Well, I'll tell ya, I majored in Accounting (Bleh) and had only 2 courses per semester Business related and 3 to 4 that were requirements (English, Theology, etc.) or free electives. I suppose the structure is different at various institutions, but I still think there has to be a way to shorten the process, provide less classes and therefore make higher education more accessible.

Maybe those that are undeclared or have a minor or something would be required to take more "general" classes or something. Of course, I have nothing against learning, I mean, certainly I had some electives that were among my favorite classes (psychology, astronomy) but I do have something against the extraordinarily high cost and therefore inaccessibility. So many people deserve better. (Probably my most liberal viewpoint since I'm normally a conservative thinker, hehe).

It's actually pretty simple. I was 11, in the passenger seat of my mother's car on the way home from my grandmother's house (wearing a 3/4 sleeve black & blue Def Leppard 'Pyromania' shirt no less) when some old fool who probably should have had his drivers license revoked sometime past the age of collecting social security ran a stop sign, we t-boned him and that was that. I went through the windshield, broke my nose, received 88 micro-plastic surgery stitches in my face, 16 in my knee and a concussion. We sued his dumb ass and we won. I was "awarded" with enough money to cover 2 years of college. I should have gotten more, but my lawyer sucked eggs. That's why I'm so ornery today.

Damn! Well I'm glad you didn't suffer any permanent injuries or anything. I guess the money you got really helped out your ability to pay for your education, so at least that's a positive from a negative. Now lawyers, there's a whole another discussion entirely.

Ornery?? Mark ornery??? Never!

 

[NAD]

...unless you're going to become a professor, smoke pot with your classes and sleep with nubile 19-year-olds who need at least C+'s to stay in school.

In which case, it's a great major.

Jesus man, I chose the wrong path after college, I work in masonry and the only nubile 19-year-olds I see 'round these parts are coworkers daughters (at least two have wanted me at one point though ).

Absolutely nothing wrong with state schools, I graduated from Cal State University San Bernardino (number one murder rate county in the US, btw :Spin: ), and I got a great education. Universities are rated by the exposure of their professor's research, NOT by the quality of education.

 

[JayKeeley]

this is one of the few times where reading a review made me want to actually buy the album blindly!

Hey BWD - did you listen to Weiland yet? I'm curious as to what you think, in particular I'm interested to hear what you think of "Kapitel II: Waldpoesie". That is some of the most beautiful music I've heard.

 

[Black Winter Day]

it's a beautiful album, very naturalistic and melancholy. the vocals turned me off a bit at first, but i have grown to like the falsetto/operatic style of them. 'a wintersunset' is a bit better, in my opinion, but not by much. in short, i love it, but i don't feel thatr i have absorbed it fully yet. ask me later for my tr00 opinion!

my mom likes this music!
a month ago: "i like this music, justin! does it ever get. . . crazy like some of that stuff you listen to?"