Hmmmm

No, we're talking about different things - it looks like you're thinking RMS is where the volume 'seems to be' on the meter. The RMS is more like the average amplitude - if you put your input volume so that it peaks between 0 and -2 db, you're getting as much gain as you're going to before you clip the input; if you put your output volume so that it peaks between 0 and -2 db, you're leaving as little headroom as you can before you distort the whole output. If you compress and limit until your RMS is between 0 and -2 db, your mix is going to sound squished, completely lack dynamics and 'punch', and likely cause serious discomfort. The peak you see on your meter is going to be the maximum level, and RMS will be the perceived 'loudness' of a section. You don't want to waste headroom, so get your master volume as high as it will go before clipping; RMS comes into play when some things have the same peak level but one seems noticeably louder than another. Volume in Sonar is the same as volume on any audio device, and will change the gain of an audio file without changing it any other way, but when you use clippers and compressors and limiters you're changing the sound by bringing the quiet bits up to a volume similar to that of your loud bits, or lopping off the tops of the loud bits and raising everything else up so that it's in the same area, or something like that.

Running your gear so that it's near 0db but not clipping is fine. You should probably read into RMS on Wikipedia or one of those physics-made-easy sites if it doesn't make sense.

Jeff
 
Ive just whacked my old mix into soundforge and it says -18 DB :\ That is shocking considering its loud as fuck!

Aye this is all new too me, its frying my brain a little :p Ive took every limiter off every channel and put that G clip on the master with only a c4 and it does whack the volume up...however what people are saying seems to be much more than just putting that on a master and cranking it.

Overall my track is pretty much the same volume besides this clean part which is obv lower (sounds just fine).

Its the spread of the instruments I need to work at I think, Im not sure the volume is the problem I have....more of how to stop everything sounding like mash potatoe. The drums are either too bloody quiet or too damn overpowering.
 
I might not put a Gclip on the master, it's better to let that be something that tames peaks (like you'll have with your drums) and not something that just annoys the guitars (which are squished already by amp distortion) - try putting Gclip on the individual drum tracks before trying to fit them in, so that they'll seem more 'present', EQ them after that, and use a good compressor or limiter on the master.

Jeff
 
Thanks, im riding this bitch as hot as she can go atm without clipping as you suggested. Ive got the Gclip on the snare and kick atm just to bring them out of the mix.

What is a good VST compressor and....should you ever put some reverb on the master channel?
 
What is a good VST compressor


The same thing that gutted me!

I own Kjaerhus golden audio channel and was heartbroken when 6 was released and had vintage channel :lol: That's why it took me ages to upgrade! :D

Vintage channel is fucking ammazing! Start with that.

If not, the antress modern plugins, http://antress.myweb.hinet.net/

Free and fucking amazing.

I've managed to get some awesome snare "pop" and baws to the kickdrum by using the dbme160!
 
Ooooof thanks mate these look tasty! I think im making progress finally lol.
Im curious about my kick sound, its been EQ'd to fuck and it sounds how I like it too sound but does it compliment the mix :p Hmmm the questions :p
 
I don't know if it fits the mix, post the 'new' version.

As for the reverb... I wouldn't. Perhaps a little room reverb on the drums (together, mind you, process them together... it sucks to have one sounding right but then have the mix sound washy because you didn't let them all share...) and of course the vocal treatment where it needs it, but it's too easy to get washy sounding with reverb on EVERYTHING.

Jeff
 
The first one is basically a cut of the "new" mix. The second is another section of it with keyboards, give it a listen if you wish.

The waveforms still boxed out for some reason, even though its not as bad as before. I layed off the compressors a load, only compressing the master not overdoing it.

I think it sounds better personally than the first test.

Working progress :)

EXCUSE THE SHIT DRUMMING!! I couldnt be arsed at the time!

http://www.upload.celtiaproductions.co.uk/uploads/clip2.mp3

http://www.upload.celtiaproductions.co.uk/uploads/clip3.mp3
 
Woah fuck me just heard the first clip, when it kicks in all I can hear is a compressor masturbating! Ill have to sort that bastard asap. Sorry guys! *hides*
 
Right, I took the compressor off the master channel just leaving the C4 compressing the mids slightly. I turned the master right down where it was just below marking the red.

Then I popped it into soundforge and had a look at the wave....

It has dynamics however its ALWAYS compressor or no compressor in between those 2 lines at 6DB. I want that waveform just a lot bigger.

What Im trying to get my head round now is the issues that if I put any kinda of compressor/limiter on the master I get the coffee table waveform instantly.

Another thing ive just realised is that my C4 is actually clipping to fuck! No matter what I tweak I cant get the signal down on it. Its just compressing the low-mids slightly, basically Andys pre-set.

Pweeeese help :(:(:(

clips2.jpg


UPDATE

Ive took off the C4 which was clipping, took the C4 off the kick from which was making it real scooped so now Ive gained more attack thus needing a slighty lower level. Also tweaked the EQ on the kicks to allow more room for bass.

All I put on the master was what id call a very "light" compression with the L2. Nothing else on the master. Put the wave form into SF and.....it is better by a long shot....however im still missing those little top peaks but now im totally dumfounded how to get those dynamic peaks with a decent size wave form like this. If it was this size with the peaks intact that would be the goal! Update pic :)


clips3.jpg
 
Sorted it!! Ive pretty much got a nice wave without a cut off running real hot and sticky. SF now says im at -11 RMS. That will do for me! :headbang:

That should be my moaning over for a wee bit. Cheeeeers!

J