Houyhnhnm

[speed]

Houyhnhnm's are calm, rational horses, oblivious to morality, pity, religion, class/social status or structure, and individuality. They practice eugenics and genocide on a truly utilitarian cost/benefit analysis basis. They know and are immersed in philosophy, and base their art entirely on nature. Their language is remarkably free from judgment and error, possessing no moral, ethical, or political terms; they have no concept of what a lie is.

Essentially, the Houyhnhnms represent rationality taken to its furthest end. In terms of language, these Houyhnhnm's posessed a language free from ethics, valuation, politics, etc; things that Wittgenstein and Nietszche would later comment was the root of many a philosophical problem. Indeed, as all non-rational thought is unknown to the Houyhnhnm's, almost all of the problems of philosophy are eliminated. Yet, in such a rational world, no matter how resplendent to a philosopher or scientist, one is also left with a kind of horror. The horror of no individuality, no heroic death, no beliefs, and the total victory of pure rationally based utilitarianism. And this was all written about as satire in the 18th century. Amazing Swift would be prescient enough to not only predict the rise of utilitarianism and scientific socialism and its effects, but accurately predicted the philosophical quandry of language that still occupies most philosophers today.

And yet as we follow our giant as he meets the yahoos, we, and our hero, are both filled with revulsion. All of our petty irrational ideas, social mores, and base desires are found in these yahoos--our sinful, unenlightened and irrational behavior and being, which still thrives in our lives, institutions and thoughts after thousands of years. We may feel perhaps this extreme rationality is far more enlightened, and preferable.

So, what do we make of Houyhnhnm's today? What do we make of them now that utilitarianism is now more or less doctrine, and language, morality etc has never been more corrupted? Have we learned anything? Or are we mere Yahoos with better technology?

Is it even possible for the human race to come up with such a Houyhnhmn language? And would we want to?

 

[Έρεβος]

Or are we mere Yahoos with better technology?

Basically.

 

[speed]

I revised and attempted to flesh out a little more conversation in the original post. My conclusion was a bit strong, and I assumed or inferred everyone is familiar with Swift and Gulliver's Travels (which they should be).

 

[Blowtus]

Is rationalism applied purely to 'the whole' really the best thing for the whole?
Is this pretty much what you're getting down to?

 

[Cythraul]

Essentially, the Houyhnhnms represent rationality taken to its furthest end. In terms of language, these Houyhnhnm's posessed a language free from ethics, valuation, politics, etc; things that Wittgenstein and Nietszche would later comment was the root of many a philosophical problem. Indeed, as all non-rational thought is unknown to the Houyhnhnm's, almost all of the problems of philosophy are eliminated. Yet, in such a rational world, no matter how resplendent to a philosopher or scientist, one is also left with a kind of horror. The horror of no individuality, no heroic death, no beliefs, and the total victory of pure rationally based utilitarianism. And this was all written about as satire in the 18th century. Amazing Swift would be prescient enough to not only predict the rise of utilitarianism and scientific socialism and its effects, but accurately predicted the philosophical quandry of language that still occupies most philosophers today.

The Houynhnm is an impossible creature. Standards of rationality or any talk of rationality already presuppose a certain amount of values.

 

[speed]

The Houynhnm is an impossible creature. Standards of rationality or any talk of rationality already presuppose a certain amount of values.

Well perhaps this was a bad idea for a thread; or the way I phrased it was a bad idea.

In response to your post: Houynhnm's are fictional creations. And whats more, it is Gulliver who inquires and discovers these values by asking questions using his own human value system; the Houynhmns themselves are totally oblivious to any such values--they just are. What Gulliver discovers about the creatures, is everything I listed in the first post.