i dont know much about mastering but i know that widening the stereo image is something that can be done in mastering, but not sure if i can do something in mixing to make it wider. does anyone know anything about this?
How do i give my mixes a wider stereo image?
- Thread starter JBkobraproductionz
- Start date
Aaron Smith
Envisage Audio
I wouldn't mess with stereo widening during mastering. You are better off getting your wideness in the mix from doubling/hard panning where appropriate and tasteful (guitars are the most common and obvious), good overhead mic positioning, stereo mic'ing of appropriate sources, and delays/reverbs. Someone suggested on these forums once that stereo widening tools can sound good on keyboard or midi based sounds, and I have actually found a lot of the time that it works really well and ends up sounding better with widening than without... I know mono compatibility is not a terribly important issue these days, but with any artificial widening that you do decide to play with, just be sure to check in mono and make sure you aren't completely destroying anything or creating any obvious phase issues.
lolzgreg
Cereal Shipping Sneapster
+1
I've used stereo wideners before on the guitar bus, thought I ended up liking it and trashed it later. It does something to the sound that I don't really love. I know it was done on Saosin's self titled album though, cause when you hit the mono button all you hear is bass, drums and vocals
mickrich
Member
- Aug 2, 2007
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A good way to make guitars (or anything) wider is to use an opposite panned very short delay with zero feedback and low pass filtered at about 3K.
This makes things seem further to one side because the signal arrives at your left ear (for a left panned signal) then the filtered signal arrives at your right ear slightly later. This is how your brain perceives distance and placement of sound. The short delay simulates the left panned sound arriving at your left ear first then the sound traveling around your head then arriving at the right ear.
This makes things seem further to one side because the signal arrives at your left ear (for a left panned signal) then the filtered signal arrives at your right ear slightly later. This is how your brain perceives distance and placement of sound. The short delay simulates the left panned sound arriving at your left ear first then the sound traveling around your head then arriving at the right ear.
Sickan
¯\(°_o)/¯
As easy as it sounds, it really works! Just tested it on my mix and the guitars sounded even sweeter with that trick
Mickrich, how short do you set your delay?
sgt.pepper
Member
- Jan 28, 2009
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here's the deal with the stereo widening:
if you have a mono signal (maybe a synth) thats hard panned left, send it to an aux and pan this aux hard to the right.
now change the phase on the right panned aux.
if you turn the volume fader up (slowly...begin with your volume fader completely down) now on the aux you will heare that the signal will go wider and wider...
the same works with stereo sources where the left side is hard panned left and the right hard panned right...send it to an aux where the left side is hard panned right and the right is hard panned left, change the phase etc. ...
but...the basics about stereo panning are:
1. never use it on the hole mix!
2. the more stereo widening you are using the more your mid is going quieter!
3. your bass is lost!
4. and be sure that you have a correct speaker position!
A good idea for stereo widening is for example widening a reverb, a room or some short effects as a little ear candy
You can hear a lot of stereo widening on nearly all coldplay records!
That's my tip
if you have a mono signal (maybe a synth) thats hard panned left, send it to an aux and pan this aux hard to the right.
now change the phase on the right panned aux.
if you turn the volume fader up (slowly...begin with your volume fader completely down) now on the aux you will heare that the signal will go wider and wider...
the same works with stereo sources where the left side is hard panned left and the right hard panned right...send it to an aux where the left side is hard panned right and the right is hard panned left, change the phase etc. ...
but...the basics about stereo panning are:
1. never use it on the hole mix!
2. the more stereo widening you are using the more your mid is going quieter!
3. your bass is lost!
4. and be sure that you have a correct speaker position!
A good idea for stereo widening is for example widening a reverb, a room or some short effects as a little ear candy
You can hear a lot of stereo widening on nearly all coldplay records!
That's my tip
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
sgt.pepper
Member
- Jan 28, 2009
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okay you are right...because its called stereo widening you have to use it with a stereo signal!
i never really use it myself, so i thought it will work with a mono signal too, but thats false.
so thanks for your note
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
okay you are right...because its called stereo widening you have to use it with a stereo signal!
i never really use it myself, so i thought it will work with a mono signal too, but thats false.
so thanks for your note
that on the other hand causes phase cancellation AND leftward slanted stereoimage.
sgt.pepper
Member
- Jan 28, 2009
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but i think its the same way a stereo widening plugin works...
for me this method works in pro tools!
did you ever tried it out?
Well Mika Jussila from Finnvox studios always uses some stereo widening and it sounds awesome! I've seen this first hand(I've observed his working for over a month) and he did it pretty much everytime. If just a tiny bit but still. He uses a custom made stereo widening outboard unit that only has 3 buttons and a knob that adjusts the widening. 40hz, 80hz and 160hz switch to adjust from where the widening starts. he goes with the 160 usually.
this particular unit doesn't suck out the middle(in the stereo image, not freq) like pretty much every plugin I've tried.
I think it does some cool stuff to the guitars actually!
this particular unit doesn't suck out the middle(in the stereo image, not freq) like pretty much every plugin I've tried.
I think it does some cool stuff to the guitars actually!
Fox Mulder
The Truth Is Out There
"2. the more stereo widening you are using the more your mid is going quieter!
3. your bass is lost!" -
Thanks to frequency-based stereo imaging plugins like the Waves S1-Shuffler, or even better, Izotope you don't have to worry about stuff like the bass getting lost, and the mids going quiter. You get to choose more than 4 bands in Izotope and choose which ones get wider and which dont. In the stereo imaging thing, place the lower end at 0 or below. That way you wouldn't have to worry about loss of bass. Same applies to all frequencies.
"4. and be sure that you have a correct speaker position!" -
+1
Cheers!
Would this work with doubled guitar tracks? Would you just send a delay from the left to the right and a delay from the right to the left and blend the delay with each guitar track? or is this something you do with a single guitar track?
Listen in mono.....if you have guitars, cymbals, keys hard panned and listen in mono they will become significantly more quiet. make them louder and pop it in stereo they are instantly wider....also when listening in mono check whats going on with the eq, make sure things aren't stepping on each other. the more you can hear in mono, while panning like you would in stereo. the more three dimensional it sounds in stereo. bass is less directional than highs....less bass more wide, and if you eq slightly differently on the opposite side it can make things wider.
Dom Ostarig
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- Dec 17, 2007
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