How do widen tracks/mix?

[KKuff]

I posted this thread, not long ago about the same subject.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/production-tips/519039-stereo-width.html
A big thing I noticed was that quadtracking the guitars seemed to have a considerable difference in how wide my mixes sound.

 

[Deadstar]

yepp dude .. quad tracking is better than the process i've mentioned above .. i assumed he had 2 tracks

 

[Jevil]

yepp dude .. quad tracking is better than the process i've mentioned above .. i assumed he had 2 tracks

2 tracks, I'm very classic.

 

[Metaltastic]

don't see the point in hardpanning guitars.. it's like playing a gig having the guitar amp in the crowd

You imply the setup of a gig is the ideal way to hear a full mix! (and the way all panning methods should be judged by) For some ensembles, the goal is of course to capture how the group sounds in their live element, but for anything remotely rock I think that's mostly been thrown out the window in favor of maximum separation and clarity, which makes for larger than life sounds on records. This is something I have NO problem with!

 

[::XeS::]

don't see the point in hardpanning guitars.. it's like playing a gig having the guitar amp in the crowd

mmmm....but it has no sense.
When you are watching a gig, you have the loudspeakers hard left and hard right with you in the center of the stage (in a perfect world).
From what you said, a good mix should have the guitar amp behind you because when you play a gig the amp is there?

 

[Metaltastic]

Hahahaha, good call Michele - I can only assume he meant "watching a gig"

 

[Deadstar]

my fault i didn't express well the idea

I wanted to say that there's too much separation between guitars and bass with that kind of pan. in other words loss of power.

 

[Metaltastic]

Well to quote myself:

You imply the setup of a gig is the ideal way to hear a full mix! (and the way all panning methods should be judged by) For some ensembles, the goal is of course to capture how the group sounds in their live element, but for anything remotely rock I think that's mostly been thrown out the window in favor of maximum separation and clarity, which makes for larger than life sounds on records. This is something I have NO problem with!

And I think the loss of power occurs when things feel more stuffed into the center and annoyingly overlap, rather than the clarity separation brings. But it's ridiculously easy to try either method, so whatever works!

 

[Morgan C]

^ Exactly.

And it doesn't make sense to be complaining your mixes aren't wide enough if the most obvious thing you can do is.. pan it further out? Usually this is a problem with badly recorded drum tracks where you've already put them at 100L/R.

 

[music]

Also, how the frequencies of the entire mix touch each other is huge. Everything has to be fine tuned to make space and room for each other. Are you chopping any lows out of the guitar? Sometimes a small chop can equal better clarity between other tracks. Also, the initial tracking counts big too. The tone of the guitar has to be just right to really create a wide mix. If it sounds muddy and one dimensional try retracking the guitars and re-work the mix until you achieve a wider mix. Get the drums right as well or you will be fighting a losing battle. Everything touches everything. Make sure they are touching each other properly in order to get a tighter mix. No inappropriate touching. Ha.

 

[egan.]

its called L-R-C mixing, our ears see the image in black and white, either its to the extreme left or right, or its in the center.

I'm not sure what you think you know but this isn't how we hear at all. The ability to localize sound is pretty imperative to survival, let alone mixing. LCR mixing is a style not a rule, beside the fact I don't remember part of that style being you had to put leads and keys in the center.

Back to my original point, a wide stereo image is set by having different things placed at different locations within the image. Hard panning rhythms sounds awesome but when they are playing the same thing you aren't going to gain nearly as much depth and interest as when you pan a mono source one way or the other. So if you drive your leads, cleans, keys and effects straight down the middle you are counting on your overheads to provide most of your stereo width. This can be fine or not depending on the mix and your taste.

At any rate I stand by my statement.
They easiest way to widen a mix is by panning things.

Also, just for the record panning law effects the gain shift as you pan. So changing it will make things sound quieter or louder as you pan but not wider or narrower.