How Do You Feel About Veganism?

@CiG

being a vegan isn't an "ethical perspective" it's someone being a dumb-ass and ignoring the fact that human bodies are designed to eat meat

a hundred years ago, the people in charge of slaughtering food-animals would have been totally horrified by the cruelty-to-animals videos that the crazy-cult-groups now use to try to convert the world into becoming vegans,

humans have been eating meat for millions of years and the severe types of cruelty appearing in the vids didn't even start happening till a couple of decades ago,

a hundred years ago the people who ate meat every single meal would have killed people over the cruelty in the vids and knowing about the cruelty would not have changed anybodies diet,

a hundred years ago,
nobody in charge of slaughtering food-animals could have ever gotten away with anyone finding out about the cruelty that's in these vids because they would have been lynched by the other people in charge of slaughtering food-animals
 
in the last post
i separated the sentences just to make sure my point was clearly articulated
 
Real talk, the solution is that you hunt your own fucking food. I don’t do that just like I never wore a mask during the pandemic or took any precautionary measures whatsoever. Getting vaxxed was easier than wearing a mask honestly. Still need my booster shot so I can be a big boy.

I’m sure cig is here to give some bullying remark. Have at it you slender, luscious, alpha male you.
 
I would front you with many a male prostitute but unfortunately we live something like thousands of miles away? Wish I could be of more help.
 
But, while we’re at it, let’s get one thing straight bitch. I have, ya know, conversations about you wanting to send something to a certain someone while they had you blocked. Might wanna calm down on the bullying eh? Unless you don’t care that is…
 
I don't think anything bad about vegans, but I think it's not for me. I like everything and I don't want to limit myself with anything.
 
Vegetarianism is a personal choice. It has health benefits and drawbacks, and imo ethical benefits (a lot of this is due to factory farming and the fact that eating a lot of meat isn't really necessary for our survival/quality of life), but I still eat meat. I would like to eat less, and maybe become a pescatarian or something but that isn't practical for me right now.

Veganism is a philosophy that opposes using animal products, and teaches that we should eschew them entirely. This includes unnecessary animal testing, and also non-foods like leather. It's fine if people want to live by the vegan lifestyle, and while I do think conscious consumption and limitation of meat in our diets is good, I'm not so sure we're at a point where absolute veganism would be ideal. Maybe in a near future where lab grown meat is readily available and indistinguishable from regular meat, it would be. I think that if we as a society can mostly agree that killing or harming animals for food is unethical, we should look at this as more of a systemic issue. We should do more research into lab grown meats, improving conditions under which animals are kept, creating vegetarian dishes that are suitable for mass appeal, raising awareness etc. As for individuals, I don't think it's anyone's fault for eating meat, but eating less is always a good idea so long as your diet remains balanced.
 
Veganism is one thing, but humans don't even treat other humans well. I've seen the must-see documentary Dominion (2018). It reminds us that life for the workers slaughtering animals can be a bit miserable as well. Rather than being shocked much at all, the doco actually made me laugh a few times at the absurdity of existence. Aussie workers calling animals "cunt" and hurling them around etc.

I'm fairly indifferent to meat and I like the idea of moving away from most animal products. If I went vegetarian, about the only things I'd truly miss are salami, gravy and pork roast. The main thing that keeps me eating meat is just convenience. I hate cooking and when I live alone I just go for the laziest processed/cook in the oven for X minutes products. There's only a couple of vegan ones I like that are reasonable value for money, so after I move back to Auckland I might eat meat 4 days a week or so. I may never give up cow's milk as it seems to help my health. Rice milk is the alternative that still tastes good, but it didn't have the same effect.
 
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again
human bodies are designed to eat meat
can't count how many times,
in just the last month,
the moments where i felt pretty sick and eating just a few bites of meat made me feel a whole lot better
 
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Blurry_Dreams said:
again
human bodies are designed to eat meat
Click to expand...
Survivorau GIF by Australian Survivor
 
"ethical perspective" should not control diet
your diet should be the diet that keeps your body intact
 
While humans are evolved to eat meat and I think it's morally okay for us to do so, the way animals are treated in the food industry is sick and disgusting. I have no desire to support it, but unfortunately there's limitations to how much control I have over my lifestyle right now. I tried veganism again more recently, and I wasn't able to do it while still getting everything I need. I settled on pescatarianism (eating plants, fish, dairy, and eggs) and it's the perfect compromise for me right now. Overfishing is a major problem, and I do feel a little bit guilty about eating fish, but my diet lets me limit how much I support unethical agriculture while still keeping me healthy. It's great.

If I had income right now, I would at the very least be much more discriminate in how I source the animal products I do eat, though. I wish I could source my dairy and fish from producers who handle it more ethically, but sadly it's not easy for me right now. I will one day. I don't think I'll ever do veganism again, but my goal diet is a high calorie but health-conscious one consisting mostly of plants, with some fish and maybe more ethically sourced dairy and eggs.

I don't think the rhetorical tactics used by vegans are very effective, either. Sure, they do reach some people, but I think they create a very us vs them mentality and other themselves, which is really harmful to their cause. This idea that everyone should go vegan is super harmful. People don't like when you come for their ways of life. Instead, I think we (animal welfarists) should seek to simply raise awareness of how bad the animal agriculture industry can be, and also encourage people to consume less factory-farmed meat through positive means. Rather than shaming people and insisting that they go vegan, we should instead be sharing awesome recipes for satisfying and delicious meals that don't involve meat. I think that lab grown meat is probably the most viable way to stop animal exploitation. Once we can produce something identical to meat for the same price, there really won't be any excuse for killing animals for sustenance anymore. There will definitely be some people who are resistant to it for whatever imagined reason, but if this technology becomes mainstream and affordable, the results will be great.
 
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PrincessHades said:
, the way animals are treated in the food industry is sick and disgusting.
Click to expand...
@PrincessHades @davis_jen @laplex @Bloopy

the "sick and disgusting" way that the animals are being treated right now didn't fucking exist until 50 fucking years ago

a hundred years ago, nobody could have gotten away with what's going on now because they would have be lynched by the specific people that were in charge of slaughtering food-animals,

a hundred years ago the people in charge of slaughtering food-animals were just way the fuck more humane and would go fucking crazy if one of them could see the inhumane way the food animals are being treated right now

they made sure the animals were as-healthy-as-possible, completely happy, not-stressed-at-all, and making absolutely sure that they didn't feel any panic or pain when being killed,

raising and slaughtering the food-animals in this way actually makes the meat way-the-fuck less toxic that the meat being sold on store shelves today


there is a fraction of 1% of the human population that can't digest meat at all, and some people have trouble digesting the specific types of meat that are the most easily available for them,

for those specific people, becoming a vegetarian can actually make them healthier
but when i say "humans are designed to eat meat" what i mean is
that a really really huge percent of the population will get sick-as-hell if they try to become vegetarian
(can't even count how many times in a random 2-month-priod where i'm feeling queasy and eating a chunk of meat makes me feel better)

being disturbed by how food-animals are being treated should make people go back to treating the food-animals humanely
and i really don't know how to re-phrase this in any kinda way that will make people understand how obvious this is to me

morality and diet should be completely 2 completely separate things
your personal diet should be the diet that keeps your specific body healthy
and when your morality dictates your diet, you're being a dumb-ass

if you're sick and you change your diet in the way that heals you
then, congratulations on fixing your medical problem

if your morality makes you change your diet
then, congratulations on becoming an idiot
 
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Blurry_Dreams said:
@PrincessHades @davis_jen @laplex @Bloopy

the "sick and disgusting" way that the animals are being treated right now didn't fucking exist until 50 fucking years ago

a hundred years ago, nobody could have gotten away with what's going on now because they would have be lynched by the specific people that were in charge of slaughtering food-animals,

a hundred years ago the people in charge of slaughtering food-animals were just way the fuck more humane and would go fucking crazy if one of them could see the inhumane way the food animals are being treated right now

they made sure the animals were as-healthy-as-possible, completely happy, not-stressed-at-all, and making absolutely sure that they didn't feel any panic or pain when being killed,

raising and slaughtering the food-animals in this way actually makes the meat way-the-fuck less toxic that the meat being sold on store shelves today


there is a fraction of 1% of the human population that can't digest meat at all, and some people have trouble digesting the specific types of meat that are the most easily available for them,

for those specific people, becoming a vegetarian can actually make them healthier
but when i say "humans are designed to eat meat" what i mean is
that a really really huge percent of the population will get sick-as-hell if they try to become vegetarian
(can't even count how many times in a random 2-month-priod where i'm feeling queasy and eating a chunk of meat makes me feel better)

being disturbed by how food-animals are being treated should make people go back to treating the food-animals humanely
and i really don't know how to re-phrase this in any kinda way that will make people understand how obvious this is to me

morality and diet should be completely 2 completely separate things
your personal diet should be the diet that keeps your specific body healthy
and when your morality dictates your diet, you're being a dumb-ass

if you're sick and you change your diet in the way that heals you
then, congratulations on fixing your medical problem

if your morality makes you change your diet
then, congratulations on becoming an idiot
Click to expand...
If your point is that humans are meant to eat animals, and that the sick an disgusting reduction of living creatures to nothing more than a source of profit and convenience was an advent of the last century or so, I definitely agree with you! I find factory farming to be abhorrent and disrespectful, but I understand that our biological reality is as omnivorous creatures. I don't think that the types of "activism" engaged in by the vegan community help at all, either. They simply divide people and make it hard for people to concede that there actually are issues with the way we handle agriculture. I'm really with you on that, you misunderstood.

I tried vegetarianism for a while, mostly because I can't afford to be choosy about where I get meat at this stage of my life. In the end, it failed. I'm underweight and right now, I'm putting my health first. I don't like the fact that I have to eat factory farmed stuff to do that, but I do for now.

I believe that hunting, raising livestock, and using animal products is an important part of our way of life. I just wish people weren't so sick and detached from the fact that we're talking about what could more or less be considered sentient beings. I hate how people just sweep it under the rug and deny it. Maybe if they didn't feel such shame about their own biological realities, they'd actually wake up and see the issues with how we treat animals and push for something better. Maybe they'd take up hunting, raising their own livestock (if they had the means), or at least making more ethical decisions with where they source their animal products, if they can afford it.

I'm with you. You generally made some good points. The way it's handled in factory settings is straight up gross.
 
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