How important are pre-amps?

[The Unavoidable]

Recently I have been reading alot about various professional recording sessions, and I've came across that alot of different pre-amps are used, to give different types of sound. And I don't get it, isn't a pre-amp just a signal boost? How can it add or shape a sound?

Most recording interfaces today have preamps built in, so would there actually be a difference in sound if one were to buy some external, dedicated preamps?
And would they actually make a significant difference in the sound quality?

 

[Melodeath]

Preamps amplify the signal in different ways. How well (and how, for that matter) a preamp does this "boosting" determines how much noise is amplified and how much the preamp colors the tone. Thus, different types of preamps color the tone differently.

If you want to hear how big a difference preamps can make, check out this link - http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=4038

 

[Torniojaws]

Once the preamp is of sufficient quality (generally above 650 euros / 1000 USD), there's not all that big difference per se, unless the preamp has a signature sound (API 3124 for example). Cheaper preamps may or may not reach the same sound quality for a given application. Preamps aren't just a signal boost - their construction, design and type (transistor or tube) will affect the final sound quite noticeably. And that sound is highly subjective, but there are some general preamps that all agree are great.

A dedicated preamp is most always better than a preamp found in an interface, simply because the design and amount of money per unit is much higher for a dedicated preamp than for a preamp included in an interface (with a lot of other features). Take for example a 800 euro preamp and a 800 euro interface:

The preamp has 800 euros' worth of design and components just for the preamp function alone
The interface must divide the 800 euros for the AD/DA-converter, sound card functions, filtering, inputs and outputs, and so on. That leaves a lot less money for the preamp function.

 

[The Unavoidable]

I see. Well, I'm somewhat new to recording and producing, been into it for little more than a year now. I record alot of metal, (which is why I love this forum) and I'm always digging around the internet and other places looking for tips and how to improve. Right now, I've got a pretty modest setup using a PreSonus Inspire interface with a Studio Projects B1 and a SM57. I'm using a Vox Tonelab to record guitars and bass right now, but I'll soon be getting a new amp so then I'll will probably move on to micing the cab with 57.

Is there any point in starting to think about getting some good preamps, or should I focus more on getting a better interface and mics? I'm really happy with the B1, but then again I don't really much reference.

 

[kev]

Preamps amplify the signal in different ways. How well (and how, for that matter) a preamp does this "boosting" determines how much noise is amplified and how much the preamp colors the tone. Thus, different types of preamps color the tone differently.

If you want to hear how big a difference preamps can make, check out this link - http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=4038

Did you ever get the results of what preamps they were dude? I cant seem to see them on the site. I think the recordings start off bad and climax with the best pre. I often wonder about the 5$ mic pre. What do you guys think?

 

[Metaltastic]

My feeling on preamps is that they're the second least important thing in the signal chain (converters being the least important IMO), behind mic choice and quality of the original signal (guitar tone, drum sound, etc.) in that order. That being said, preamps and converters can make a big difference, but they're never gonna make a shitty tone good.

 

[Aaron Smith]

preamps and converters can make a big difference, but they're never gonna make a shitty tone good.

...and, they will never make a good tone sound bad.

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah, I was gonna say that, but I hesitated, cuz bad preamps can have a pretty ugly effect on a good source (fuzz, noise, etc.), or accentuate certain undesirable traits, like woofiness in palm mutes that would be tolerable through other pres. Overall, though, I concur.

 

[_Brutalism_]

So studios with for example, 80 channel interfaces could have 80 dedicated preamps? Wow, I never saw a rack that big just for preamps. Or maybe the in-built preamps of desks such as Neve, SSL etc etc are good enough?

Sorry but this concept is quite new to me because I never used external preamps.

 

[Melodeath]

Did you ever get the results of what preamps they were dude? I cant seem to see them on the site. I think the recordings start off bad and climax with the best pre. I often wonder about the 5$ mic pre. What do you guys think?

Yeah, man. They posted the results here - http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=4089
Iirc, I liked #3 the most.

I also discovered the 5$ pre yesterday. (For those of you who haven't seen anything about it - http://www.record-producer.com/learn.cfm?a=3062)

A friend and I plan on building some
However, I'll need to get an external ADC->ADAT if I want to use them in addition to my interface preamps.

 

[Torniojaws]

So studios with for example, 80 channel interfaces could have 80 dedicated preamps?

You only need preamps when recording - and how often do you record 80 tracks at once? Once the tracks are recorded, you don't need a preamp for them anymore.

Drumkits are the biggest preamp hogs, and I think at max they need about 30 preamps, and that's a huge kit! And if you're recording that big a drumkit, I don't think you have studio-related money problems

 

[The Unavoidable]

So, what kind of Preamps are there? What kind works for what? Which are the people choice, like the 5150s and DualRecs of preamps?

 

[Torniojaws]

I'm sure it depends on what kind of sound you're after, but these should do very nicely:

Kick, snare - API 512c
Toms, overhead - API 3124+
Guitars - Chandler Germanium
Bass - Avalon U5

 

[Metaltastic]

Or Great River, or A-Designs, or Purple Audio, or the Presonus ADL, or Brent Averill, or Vintech...the list is intimidating to say the least

 

[_Brutalism_]

OK so how would the basic signal chain be using an external preamp? I looked at some images of the ones suggested and they all had line-in but no XLRs. Would those be built in the back?

Also, so you would connect the external preamp to the preamp of the mixer?

I'm really confused. Never used this system before. My signal chain knowledge is bleak since I only worked with a pre-programmed patch bay.

Any down-tuned guides or threads you may offer so newbs at this can get their fill?

Cheers!

 

[Metaltastic]

Well it's pretty basic if you think of signal flow in a digital environment in the most simple sense - sound gets turned into a (very weak) electrical signal by a transducer (microphone, piezo pickup, etc.), so it has to be amplified before it can be recorded. Once it's amplified, it has to be converted to digital to be stored and then manipulated on a computer. So it's mic --> preamp --> line-in on your interface / mixer --> interface. Since the line-in probably will be part of a preamp on your interface / mixer, you wanna have the gain all the way down on that, cuz you wanna get your gain from your good external preamp, and thus turning up the gain on the interface/mixer pre would defeat the purpose of using the good pre.

 

[_Brutalism_]

Ah ok so the external Pre goes into the Line in of the console.

Another thing, so the external pres are only used in recording because the Internal pres are good enough for mixing (getting the recorded sound from the DAW back to the desk to mix), no?

Torniojaws indicated that they are only used for recording. So this would only be a patching issue to remove them from the chain once the recording is done? So lets say my biggest recording is with 20 microphones. The 20 pres will be used to record then after removed from the chain for the mixing process by patching?

Wow, this opened new doors of understanding for me. Imagine recording an orchestra with external pres. I'd rather not hehe.

 

[Kazrog]

...and, they will never make a good tone sound bad.

Actually, in the case of the M-Audio stuff, I've found it is possible!! uke:

 

[if6was9]

Ah ok so the external Pre goes into the Line in of the console.

Another thing, so the external pres are only used in recording because the Internal pres are good enough for mixing (getting the recorded sound from the DAW back to the desk to mix), no?

Torniojaws indicated that they are only used for recording. So this would only be a patching issue to remove them from the chain once the recording is done? So lets say my biggest recording is with 20 microphones. The 20 pres will be used to record then after removed from the chain for the mixing process by patching?

Wow, this opened new doors of understanding for me. Imagine recording an orchestra with external pres. I'd rather not hehe.

No- pre's aren't used at all in mixing, not even the internal ones- the sound is already recorded and converted to digital, if your using something like a d-command control interface its like a giant mouse/keyboard, the sound is in the computer already so no need for pre's / ad converters in mixing.

 

[_Brutalism_]

Oh ok that makes perfect sense. Thanks.