How long do you work for a tank of gas?
- Thread starter missjelRETIREDloshot
- Start date
BadMoose
Throbbing Member
- Jan 3, 2008
- 89
- 0
- 6
Too long.
Using take home pay, for more shock and awe, about 4 hours. Thankfully I only have to do it once every 10 -15 days.
What's the big "reason" supposed to be this time, anyway? The election? Did a bird fly over a refinery and cause a shutdown? WTF????
Using take home pay, for more shock and awe, about 4 hours. Thankfully I only have to do it once every 10 -15 days.
What's the big "reason" supposed to be this time, anyway? The election? Did a bird fly over a refinery and cause a shutdown? WTF????
koelling
APT Keyboardist
- Dec 27, 2007
- 326
- 0
- 16
The price of gas is actually right on par with minimum wage since 1980. It only seems like it's going up so much because it sat between $1.25 and $1.50 for over ten years, then stayed under $2.00 up until 1999. Just the fact that gas only increased by 33% in a 20 year span was a blessing. Minimum wage went from $3.10 an hour in 1980 to $6.50 an hour in 1999. That means the average pay more than doubled in 290 years while gas hardly went up. From 2000 to 2008, gas fluctuated so much and eventually surpassed the $4.00, so it just seems like it's such a dramatic difference. I used Melissa's chart to determine how many hours the average person had to work to fill up their tank in 1980, and then again in 2008. It's less now.
SharkBlack
Member
I don't want to say how many hours I have to work to fill my tank, but I use 2 tanks a week.
There are many market factors driving the price of gas these days. I'm no expert but one main factor is the rise of China and India as industrialized nations. Their consumption is way up over that couple of decades and continues to grow exponentially. This impacts the overall supply of oil. Other factors are OPEC production has been slow to grow and fairly static compare to demand over the last decade not keeping up with current demand. And then there is the fact that regulation imposed by your congress on the exploration and drilling of new oil wells in Alaska and offshore as well as a moratorium on producing oil from shale. Then of course there is the fact that the US has not built an oil refinery since the 70s, so our capacity to refine oil ourselves has not kept pace with demand and oil refined elsewhere is more expensive.
Every one blames the oil companies but their profits remain around 4%. Of course 4% today is a much higher dollar amount. But they are the ones who actually explore drill refine and bring your gas to fill your tank. Now Government taxes us 15% on gas. What do they do with our money? Fix a few roads? I don't know, the roads around our house are pretty f'd up
But Steve is right adjusted for inflation this still doesn't hurt as bad as the late 70s...
Gas remained static for years while the cost of living grew.
Oh yeah and that crazy guy Hugo doesn't help either...
There are many market factors driving the price of gas these days. I'm no expert but one main factor is the rise of China and India as industrialized nations. Their consumption is way up over that couple of decades and continues to grow exponentially. This impacts the overall supply of oil. Other factors are OPEC production has been slow to grow and fairly static compare to demand over the last decade not keeping up with current demand. And then there is the fact that regulation imposed by your congress on the exploration and drilling of new oil wells in Alaska and offshore as well as a moratorium on producing oil from shale. Then of course there is the fact that the US has not built an oil refinery since the 70s, so our capacity to refine oil ourselves has not kept pace with demand and oil refined elsewhere is more expensive.
Every one blames the oil companies but their profits remain around 4%. Of course 4% today is a much higher dollar amount. But they are the ones who actually explore drill refine and bring your gas to fill your tank. Now Government taxes us 15% on gas. What do they do with our money? Fix a few roads? I don't know, the roads around our house are pretty f'd up
But Steve is right adjusted for inflation this still doesn't hurt as bad as the late 70s...
Gas remained static for years while the cost of living grew.
Oh yeah and that crazy guy Hugo doesn't help either...
Let's see, 110 liter gas tank, 1.34 a liter, too much. about a full days work. Gas too expensive so, had to park my ex-cop car and buy a Loser mobile!!! Yes a mini-van!!! Should be better on gas. From a 5L to a 3.4L .
I can't do this since I'm unemployed, but lets just say that I have a negative balance in the bank.
Sorrell
APT Guitarist/vocalist
I have a 43 gallon tank. It's been a loooong time since it was full.
All these explanations are very thought-provoking and will make many people feel a little better. BUT!!! When Chevron posted yet another 1/4 of record-breaking profits, I have to call bullshit!
Greed. That's my answer. Yes, all those other issues are indeed factors that are driving the price up.
Try this: If the entire nation was dependent on...let's say Kool Aid. The country was currently being ruled by a man, whose family made their millions from the manufacturing and sale of Kool Aid. During his reign, the price of Kool Aid had quadrupled. What would you think?
I'm not a politically minded person AT ALL! I'm neither republican nor democrat. I'm just pointing out what I see to be hypocrisy.
Just don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
SS
All these explanations are very thought-provoking and will make many people feel a little better. BUT!!! When Chevron posted yet another 1/4 of record-breaking profits, I have to call bullshit!
Greed. That's my answer. Yes, all those other issues are indeed factors that are driving the price up.
Try this: If the entire nation was dependent on...let's say Kool Aid. The country was currently being ruled by a man, whose family made their millions from the manufacturing and sale of Kool Aid. During his reign, the price of Kool Aid had quadrupled. What would you think?
I'm not a politically minded person AT ALL! I'm neither republican nor democrat. I'm just pointing out what I see to be hypocrisy.
Just don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining.
SS
Jax
Forum Goddess
A 43 gallon tank, Roosta? OUCH..and I thought filling my 18 gallon tank was bad (especially when the gas pump shut off - at $75 - before my tank was even full)..whew.
Sorrell
APT Guitarist/vocalist
BadMoose
Throbbing Member
- Jan 3, 2008
- 89
- 0
- 6
Preach it brutha'
That's tough to take, although I do realize it is a free market economy. There's just too few people with too much power.
SharkBlack
Member
Demand is up... there for sales are up.... there for profit is up.
43 gallon tank!! Holy Bejeezus!!!
What are ya driving there homie? A Tank??Actually Oil Companys make 4% profit , Microsoft makes 18% profit and Cable TV , Cell phone ... electronic companys make 23% profit my suggestion would be to stop driving a vehicle that requires 43 freakin gallons of gas and buy a Toyota .....LOL Obama will save us all the world the universe........... and he is great used car dealer tooo.welcome to socialism what our forefathers died for has become a american way of life...........hiel
Sorrell
APT Guitarist/vocalist
A 300% price increase didn't really hurt profits either.
43 gallon tank!! Holy Bejeezus!!!
It's actually just a 43 gallon fuel tank on wheels.
SS
3.5 hours. That's like, one simple tax return. I don't complain...much. OK, so here's my view/opinion. I'll preface it with stating that I've read a lot of stories and opinions on gas prices. They're all thought-provoking, but I'm not sure what to believe. All I know is that this increase is very sudden and this is impacting a multitude of people as well as every industry.
From what I've read, oil demands are down from a decade ago. China's demand has increased only 4% while the US' demand has decreased by 2% within the past decade. Global demand is down 1% from a year ago. No one has built any new refineries for around 15 years. Oil prices aren't indicative of neither supply nor demand. They are based on speculations for the future price of an oil contract in X amount of years. The fair market value for a gallon the raw material known as petroleum is still around $1.20 (US). While I can't pinpoint any single reason why gas prices have gone up, one big reason why supply (supposed or not) isn't matching demand is because there is a lack of refineries. We have PLENTY of oil reserves in the world, but there aren't enough refineries to keep up. Another reason is because of this speculation. A final reason is that no one wants profit margins to decrease.
One very bad move on the U.S.'s part was pushing ethanol so much. It's a terrible deal. Yes, it's a renewable source (corn), but it's neither cost-effective nor efficient. Here's the irony in the typical U.S. ethanol refinery: they use gasoline to run the plants that produce ethanol. In most cases, they use more gasoline than the amount of ethanol they actually produce. BUT it's sustainable. Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline; in fact, some of the first auto engines were designed to run on ethanol. It wasn't until someone (Ford? Lincoln? Edison??) experimented with gasoline that they realized that gasoline provided a bigger bang for your buck--literally. So...where this is going...demand for corn has shifted to ethanol. This shift has caused cattle farmers to sell their livestock either younger than expected or feed them something else or drive up prices. Fair enough.
What am I ranting about again? Oh yeah, gas prices. Here's what I'm thinking. It's along the same lines of what 'ole Injury Prone is saying. I think we're seeing an inflation explosion that most people can't handle. We've had steady growth the past 15 years or so coupled with little amounts of inflation. In fact, based on the amounts of currency circulated, there should have been more inflation than what we saw. It's a combination of growth without inflation (or very little of it). Why? Those Beaners (I can get by with it; my parents are originally from Mexico) kept sending money back to the Mother Lode, causing the currency to never reach the U.S. and thus preventing real, organic inflation. This phenomenon was considered by many economists as impossible. Of course now those same people aren't remitting quite as much, but that's another matter.
One big complaint I have is that Americans are too demanding. As a nation we have no patience. We have negative savings rates. I think people have learned from the freakin' master: our own government. That's right. We've NEVER had an economic surplus. Ever. Our nation was nearly founded on credit. The French loaned us money to build an army to rebel against the British. It's been downhill ever since.
I'm a fan of classical economics in a mean, Darwinian sort of way. Plus I'm lazy. The economy is SUPPOSED to be up and down. We're just so g*dd@mn impatient to remember that and therefore panic any time the stock market has a hiccup. If you can't ride it out, you're either too old (and I can accept that) or you've been bad with money. In that case, it's your fault.
Don't even get me started on Social Security. I'm all for abolishing it. Right. Now. I can invest my allotment better than the government. 2% growth?? That's not even inflation. Hell--that's barely a money market. But nooooo--privatization is bad. It's eeeeevil! Idiots. And--AND SS distributions are taxed! That's double taxation, there Big Brother.
Oh boy...talk about a tangent. Sorry aboot that; I just wanted to get that off of my chest. Gas...
So that's what I know. Gas prices as a commodity are artificially inflated because the price is driven by a market that speculates on the future price of a gas contract. In actuality a barrel isn't worth its trading price. Who actually wins? Day traders. As mentioned earlier, oil companies aren't making that much of a profit margin. 4%? C'mon...that's only twice as good as SS's trusts. Ethanol is NOT the answer to our problems. It's a renewable answer, but it's costly, inefficient and as environmentally friendly as dumping antifreeze down the drain. There's been a surge in inflation that's overdue, and a lot of people can't cope with it. The economy is supposed to ebb and crest. We're waaaaay too impatient, and we need to think in the long-term--something we're not used to. I like how one Wall Street Journal opinion piece put it (paraphrasing): talking about the last quarter is a long time ago; last year seems like a decade ago; a decade ago is only found in history books. Long term, people...long term. I guess that's why most Americans don't save. SS can kiss my ass.
OK, I commend you for reading that terribly-written post, but that's my rant. Main bullet point: deal with it. If you can't, you need to discipline your spending. If you can't do that, I have no sympathy for you. If you've disciplined your spending, but you still fail to make ends meet, you have have my sympathies.
From what I've read, oil demands are down from a decade ago. China's demand has increased only 4% while the US' demand has decreased by 2% within the past decade. Global demand is down 1% from a year ago. No one has built any new refineries for around 15 years. Oil prices aren't indicative of neither supply nor demand. They are based on speculations for the future price of an oil contract in X amount of years. The fair market value for a gallon the raw material known as petroleum is still around $1.20 (US). While I can't pinpoint any single reason why gas prices have gone up, one big reason why supply (supposed or not) isn't matching demand is because there is a lack of refineries. We have PLENTY of oil reserves in the world, but there aren't enough refineries to keep up. Another reason is because of this speculation. A final reason is that no one wants profit margins to decrease.
One very bad move on the U.S.'s part was pushing ethanol so much. It's a terrible deal. Yes, it's a renewable source (corn), but it's neither cost-effective nor efficient. Here's the irony in the typical U.S. ethanol refinery: they use gasoline to run the plants that produce ethanol. In most cases, they use more gasoline than the amount of ethanol they actually produce. BUT it's sustainable. Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline; in fact, some of the first auto engines were designed to run on ethanol. It wasn't until someone (Ford? Lincoln? Edison??) experimented with gasoline that they realized that gasoline provided a bigger bang for your buck--literally. So...where this is going...demand for corn has shifted to ethanol. This shift has caused cattle farmers to sell their livestock either younger than expected or feed them something else or drive up prices. Fair enough.
What am I ranting about again? Oh yeah, gas prices. Here's what I'm thinking. It's along the same lines of what 'ole Injury Prone is saying. I think we're seeing an inflation explosion that most people can't handle. We've had steady growth the past 15 years or so coupled with little amounts of inflation. In fact, based on the amounts of currency circulated, there should have been more inflation than what we saw. It's a combination of growth without inflation (or very little of it). Why? Those Beaners (I can get by with it; my parents are originally from Mexico) kept sending money back to the Mother Lode, causing the currency to never reach the U.S. and thus preventing real, organic inflation. This phenomenon was considered by many economists as impossible. Of course now those same people aren't remitting quite as much, but that's another matter.
One big complaint I have is that Americans are too demanding. As a nation we have no patience. We have negative savings rates. I think people have learned from the freakin' master: our own government. That's right. We've NEVER had an economic surplus. Ever. Our nation was nearly founded on credit. The French loaned us money to build an army to rebel against the British. It's been downhill ever since.
I'm a fan of classical economics in a mean, Darwinian sort of way. Plus I'm lazy. The economy is SUPPOSED to be up and down. We're just so g*dd@mn impatient to remember that and therefore panic any time the stock market has a hiccup. If you can't ride it out, you're either too old (and I can accept that) or you've been bad with money. In that case, it's your fault.
Don't even get me started on Social Security. I'm all for abolishing it. Right. Now. I can invest my allotment better than the government. 2% growth?? That's not even inflation. Hell--that's barely a money market. But nooooo--privatization is bad. It's eeeeevil! Idiots. And--AND SS distributions are taxed! That's double taxation, there Big Brother.
Oh boy...talk about a tangent. Sorry aboot that; I just wanted to get that off of my chest. Gas...
So that's what I know. Gas prices as a commodity are artificially inflated because the price is driven by a market that speculates on the future price of a gas contract. In actuality a barrel isn't worth its trading price. Who actually wins? Day traders. As mentioned earlier, oil companies aren't making that much of a profit margin. 4%? C'mon...that's only twice as good as SS's trusts. Ethanol is NOT the answer to our problems. It's a renewable answer, but it's costly, inefficient and as environmentally friendly as dumping antifreeze down the drain. There's been a surge in inflation that's overdue, and a lot of people can't cope with it. The economy is supposed to ebb and crest. We're waaaaay too impatient, and we need to think in the long-term--something we're not used to. I like how one Wall Street Journal opinion piece put it (paraphrasing): talking about the last quarter is a long time ago; last year seems like a decade ago; a decade ago is only found in history books. Long term, people...long term. I guess that's why most Americans don't save. SS can kiss my ass.
OK, I commend you for reading that terribly-written post, but that's my rant. Main bullet point: deal with it. If you can't, you need to discipline your spending. If you can't do that, I have no sympathy for you. If you've disciplined your spending, but you still fail to make ends meet, you have have my sympathies.
Sorrell
APT Guitarist/vocalist
Damn dude...what'd I do to you?
Nice post, man. That may well be the longest one since we moved the forum. I had a feeling this thread would get folks talking.
The forum's been so damned dead, I welcome even political conversations.
SS
SharkBlack
Member
That is extremely true, 4% of 5 dollars per gallon gas is a lot more than 4% of 2 dollar per gallon gas...
SharkBlack
Member
I've heard people call this The Gas Bubble, (huh huh huh) you know, that followed the Dot.Com Bubble and the Housing Bubble? Just a matter of time and POP!
Jax
Forum Goddess
Speaking of gas..think this will ever catch on?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWf9nYbm3ac&feature=related[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWf9nYbm3ac&feature=related[/ame]
