How many guitar rhythm tracks is TOO much?

[dandan]

I was planning on recording 6 rhythm tracks when heading into a studio

2 Mesa Boogie Recto Tracks *clean boosted only - no added gain*
4 Splawn QuickRod Tracks

I don't use a lot of gain on either amp (I only go up to noon on gain and don't boost the gain with a pedal)

The style of music i play is hard rock / alternative -

Something along the lines of Three Days Grace / Breaking Benjamin / Chevelle / Linkin Park

I want a wall of crunchy clear articulate thickness - Don't know if 6 guitars might be TOO much and only muddy up the mix.

I try to use just the "right" amount of gain so it doesn't get all messy. Usually that's gain @ noon at most or a bit less.

Advice? :O

 

[[UEAK]Clowd]

It depends on the part and it depends how well you blend the tones - I find a mixture of high gain and low gain tones work the best... I'll also usually use active pickups for the high gain and passives for the low gain.

 

[gabriel g.]

I think it is a little overkill!!!
I would go with 2 takes of each amp

cheers

 

[Uncle Junior]

Look man, you just quad - track and leave it at that. Even this is enough believe me, 'cause you have to record four takes that have to look like as identical as possible ( at least timing )

No man on this planet can record four guitar tracks that would be identical.


When it comes to timing, editing guitar tracks in the THING. Or punching in. Or rerecording...


When it comes to dynamics, everything is cool. Because these four takes you record give the guitar sound power and wideness. If it weren't so, you would be COPY, PASTING tracks all over the place.


As for the sound of hard rock you are seeking for......first do that recording and DUDE really alligned DI tracks, "close to identical" timingwise, then play with plugins or amps or impulses try different sounds and it will get you far.

 

[dandan]

I'm not worried about the timing at all -

the music is very simplistic and I've been playing to a click non stop

but even with that being said, I know that they are going to need to align the tracks to as perfect in timing as possible and clean up the guitars no matter how tight I Play

I'll just do 4 cause youre right, there is more to clean up if I do more than 4. I dont want to give our engineer more to clean up cause that = more money

 

[Melodeath]

Maybe I'm a bit different, but I don't clean up guitars at all, other than occasioanlly using a short fade in on a track if someone came in slightly early by accident.

Usually a player will self-correct his rhythm through listening, so I wouldn't want to mess too much with timing during editing, as you might make things worse.

 

[James-Doolan]

I wouldn't want to mess too much with timing during editing, as you might make things worse.

Not possible if you know what's up!! Shit you can take a series of randomly played notes and turn them into a song midi style if you wanted but it is slow work and a pain in the arse so yea its better to get the original tight as possable

 

[hsinn3r]

Imo you could just double track, but record both amps at the same time, sou then you have 4 rhythm tracks to mix at will!

 

[Fox Mulder]

Imo you could just double track, but record both amps at the same time, sou then you have 4 rhythm tracks to mix at will!

You still won't be getting that 'wall of sound' that way.

 

[Harry Hughes]

4 tracks will be will plenty.

 

[006]

4 tracks is generally enough, but for rock I say fuck it and go with however many pleases you. Just don't let them turn into a mess. I mean, if it gets to be too much with 6, mute two of the tracks and BAM! you have 4

As for editing, I edit the fuck out of guitar tracks to make then clean as helllllllll. Then I consolidate those and edit them for timing if needed. If you know what you are doing you can only help the performance when it comes to editing to fix timing. If you are a n00b you will hurt it Seriously, it makes a big difference and is like night and day, takes it from amateur take to pro take haha.

 

[Machinated]

depends on the band, but generally you want the guitars to fall slightly behind the drums - some guitarists have a (really annoying) tendancy to play ahead of the drums, so on some bands ill go in and edit the notes to get them where they should be

 

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

I've done seven rhytmtracks once and that sounded okey. That was before the days of editing and shit too

 

[if6was9]

Last band I did I did 6 tracks of rhythm guitars and at times 2 tracks of bass. Works great for the project since they were a doom band and a wall of sound was required in my opinion.
As long as you take the time when tracking so that the player gets perfectly in with each riff its grand and results in minimum editing afterwards, you can rush it but you'll spend forever working on it afterwards.

 

[LeviathanMetal]

Hmmmmm... why not try the real answer to your question and find out for yourself and see how YOU think it sounds.

 

[dandan]

thanks for the input fellas!

I can accomplish 6 very on time/played well tracks without much problem at all, but it does mean more editing no matter what right?

The guy whos cleaning up the guitars has experience and isn't a noob and works very well, so I trust him.

I would think 4 guitar tracks mixed really well and cleaned up would sound huge but..

I could be wrong in what i heard but I've heard that there are more than 4 layers of rhythm guitars in the productions of a few of the bigger bands within the hard rock genre (add in a very experienced and very costly engineer/mixer)

Now I'm not going to say I know for a fact, or say Iknow the exact #. But it seems like its more than 4.

Anyway, everyones been very helpful. So if someone can chime in some more on this topic, great!

 

[chonchball]

In my opinion if you are tracking more and more rhythm to compensate for the loudness of the guitars in the mix, you're doing all kinds of things wrong. Every stage of the game needs to have a purpose for the SONG, not a way to overcome a pitfall. Work on getting a good guitar tone in a mix with just TWO rhythm tracks (L + R) and make those scream, then start adding in your low gain accent track or your counter melody track or your harmonization track or your voice clarity track.

 

[dandan]

going by with what the last poster said..

should I start with the higher gain tracks? I'm planning on using the Mesa Recto for thickness *gain at noon* and using a clean boost with my Maxon 820 - no gain added with the pedal

and using my Quickrod for the definition / note clarity *more mids*

I prefer the tone of my Quick Rod over the Mesa cause im more of a hot rodded Marshall type of guy.

but should I start off with those L / R Mesa tracks first?

 

[GarethSE]

I mixed a track with 4 amps once: Mesa Triple Rec, 5150 mkI, Krank Krankenstein and Splawn Nitro
Aside from the fact that my mixing skills were significantly less than they are now, it sounded fucking tits, seriously.

Forgot to add, each amp was double tracked, and it was all tight as fuck.

 

[chonchball]

XRated, was it a ReAmp thru those amps of a single performace, or did you use different performances on all those tracks? Also, were they multiple mic sets ups or single mics?


In response to the question about what to start with, basically start with what you think the most crucial sound is. If you want it to sound more defined, start with the more lower gain clarity tracks, and maybe audition a split of a high gain with your take at the same time so you can hear how the ballsiness of the meaty track will interplay with it. But if you want balls over clarity and then just want to sort of poke some notes out here and there with your clarity track, try doing your high gain first. Remember, there's no right and wrongs, and you may end up doing things completely opposite next time you approach a project and that's good! Experiment with what works and with what doesn't. That's how you'll develop your signature sound.


Another good tip for tone is try miking the cab in WAY more places than you intend to use. It's one thing to get it right by sweeping the speaker with pink noise and spending a buncha time finding the sweet spot, BUT there's nothing wrong with miking an entire cab and the room with 10 mics, and then playing back different combinations of those mics (keeping phase in mind at all times) while playing back the mix as it develops. This will give you the option of switching out that really fat sounding awesome mic track for something a little less woofy once you put the bass guitar in the mix. Remember that the guitar doesn't have to take up ALL the space and it may sound so bad ass on its own, but then you start introducing more elements and you realize you shouldn't have dialed in so much of this or so much of that. If you have these other mic options to play with you might save yourself some headache later on, and cycling through the different mic placements on a session will take just about as much time as trying to zero in on that PERFECT sound with just one or two mics for hours and hours.