How many of you mix with a sub? just curious

[Josh Burgess]

just curious how many of you mix with a sub. I'm deciding on monitors right now (right now narrowed it down to adam a7's and dynaudio bm5a's), but keep reading people complaining about the bass response, and saying that if your music requires a lot of bass it might be necessary to add a sub.

Although not as bass heavy as hip hop and dance music, the kinda stuff most guys on this forum are doing (Downtuned bass & guitars & heavy kicks) are pretty bass heavy... so, I'm just curious if any of you are using them. I realize it's probably not necessary, but all the warnings i'm reading are making me hesitate, because I don't have the money to add a sub for them right now. Opinions?

 

[KeithTidd]

i used to mix on a consumer level 2.1 system for a while and have used various systems that encorporate a sub. i liked my results but there's a few factors that need to be considered; room, treatment, frequency response of the monitors, how well you know them. Now i'm using event TR8's which reach pretty low down in frequencies, so i don't think i need the sub anyway. I think an 2.0 system with adequate low end response should be plenty.

 

[PostMortem1666]

i would go with the monitors that reach the lowest frequency wise and then not worry about a sub. at my school they have subs with mackie hr824s and i turn the sub off. im just not use to mixing with one. i wouldnt make too big a deal over it though. those a7s reach 35 hz i think so youll probably be fine.

 

[LSD-Studio]

mixing and mastering with my K&H O300 and not worrying about a sub

 

[Disconnekt]

I'm using Event TR6 monitors, and while they sound great, the low end doesn't go low enough, and unless I highpass my mixes around 80 Hz or so, the bass is always out of control. So I bought a Blue Sky Sub 8 Universal, fed my Events from the sub's crossover, and bam, instant improvement. The Sub 8 Universal is a really tight sub, though... it's in a sealed cabinet, and it's not very loud and doesn't go ridiculously low. I need low end, but I need it to be as accurate as possible, and the Sub 8 works perfectly for me. I guess I'd have to agree that it depends on your speakers and room. If you can't hear enough bass with your speakers, and you know it's not standing waves in your room, then add a sub, but definitely make sure it's a good tight one, because it's pointless to mix with an undefined rumble going on underneath. I'd start out with just the full-range speakers. It'll take you a while to learn them and get used to them, so do what you can with them, and if you think you need a sub, save up and add one later.

 

[Metaltastic]

Josh, I'm in the exact same position, between the BM5A's and the A7's; if you get a chance to demo the two, keep me informed!

Postmortem, the A7's definitely don't go to 35Hz, more like 55 Hz, which is pretty much good enough for me - honestly, although I've never used a good studio monitor sub, when attempting to mix/reference mixes on my Dad's $150 Klipsch Promedia 2.1 computer speaker set, I've found the added bass to be too flattering; on a recent recording/mix I did ("The Silent Rivals" in my soundclick) the Promedia sub made the kick/low toms especially sound really full and powerful, but on speakers without a sub (e.g., most speakers people will be using to listen), they were still lacking a lot in terms of attack/definition.

Basically, I'm planning on getting a good pair of monitors without a sub that can get almost all the way down there (e.g. A7's or BM5A's), and getting, say, a set of the Promedia 2.1 speakers (which do sound fucking awesome, I can't deny) to just check and make sure the super low-end isn't out of control, which is all I really care about for everything below 60 Hz.

 

[AdamWathan]

What I've always wondered about mixing with a sub is how you deal with the fact that you are mixing your low end in mono since you only have one speaker reproducing the low frequencies? Don't you need to hear where the bass frequencies are in the stereo field for it to translate properly to a system that has 8" L and R speakers while you mixed on like a pair of 5" drivers and a 10" sub?

 

[Metaltastic]

Pretty much all the frequencies a sub produces are in the range of our hearing where we can't perceive any location (because of the length of the sound waves), so it doesn't really matter

 

[Gustavo_Loureiro]

The sub is for ultra low end, you can't hear the stereo image of a 60hz frequency

Imagine a surround theater with one sub in every corner..

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Pretty much all the frequencies a sub produces are in the range of our hearing where we can't perceive any location (because of the length of the sound waves), so it doesn't really matter

Exactly. That's why some people have their subs off to the side.

 

[wishtheend]

I don't mix with a sub - but use both my surround sound setup w/ sub, my other computer that has a sub and a car that has a sub as difference references when checking mixes in different players. A find mixing with a sub gives a larger feel of bass, so if you mix to what sounds nice and flat with a sub, you'll be lacking when on a system without.

 

[Metaltastic]

I find mixing with a sub gives a larger feel of bass, so if you mix to what sounds nice and flat with a sub, you'll be lacking when on a system without.

+1, that's exactly what I was saying - maybe I'll get the Blue Sky EXO as my media/sub reference speakers, cuz I'm not too picky, and they're bound to be more accurate than the Klipsch set.

Oh, and given that I'm gonna be living in apartments for the forseeable future, a sub is a guarantee for the neighbors (or for right now, my parents) showing up with pitchforks and torches at my door, so that's out!

 

[kev]

Bit of a noob question here, say your speakers response stats are 60hz-22khz, does that mean you will not produce 23khz at all? (not that i could hear it if it did anyway lol)

 

[jesterroot4]

I find mixing with a sub gives a larger feel of bass, so if you mix to what sounds nice and flat with a sub, you'll be lacking when on a system without.

i wud have thought that if you listen to your favourate artists through your system with a sub, you'd get a feel for what the sub is producing and how it sounds... so after a while, you'll be able to mix and still compare the bottom end with your favourate mixes and you'd feel it alot better too. so i feel it could benifit especially as soo many home surround systems come with the shittiest subs that just hum at you when a mix has to much going on in the sub region.

i'd personally like to get a sub, but only to test my mixes with once finished. and to watch DVDs with haha

 

[Disconnekt]

i wud have thought that if you listen to your favourate artists through your system with a sub, you'd get a feel for what the sub is producing and how it sounds... so after a while, you'll be able to mix and still compare the bottom end with your favourate mixes and you'd feel it alot better too. so i feel it could benifit

Yes. You obviously wouldn't want to mix with your sub blasting... I have it just loud enough to hear the low end I couldn't before. First I set it by playing my favorite mixes bass-wise and setting the level where it sounds the best on those mixes, and then I turn it down a bit from that just to avoid being timid with the low end when I'm mixing, which is kind of ingrained in me from a few years of mixing without hearing low end and having my face blown off when I listen on systems that can reproduce it. Being able to hear the bass but having it a bit lower encourages me to turn it up a bit in the mix, and it always ends up sounding better when I do.

 

[beyond dead]

sub/stereo field: only bass and kick drum really occupy that freq. range, i never pan either so it doesnt really matter

mixing with sub: if you know how music should sound through a surround system, than go for it. But most lower end consumer 2.1 or 5.1 systems attempt to enhance the signal by adding an eq curve which misrepresents the sound.

know your speakers: if you have a good idea of how tunes sound on a 5.1 system, then you can achieve good results. but i would recommend using another "studio reference" monitor aswell

i like to listen to JUST the sub to get good clarity in the low end

I have found that some of my best mixes, that translate the best were mixed with a consumer 5.1 system. but now i have hs80`s so can`t wait to compare with my new mixes with old ones.

 

[JeffTD]

I've got a 2.1 Klipsch speaker set that I use only the sub off, and blend to taste with my TR8's every once in a while.

 

[TheDude]

I mix with Event 20/20bas with the matching 15" subwoofer. Love it.

 

[Kazrog]

M-Audio BX8as here with no sub. I hate hip hop.

 

[everybody's x]

I hate hip hop.

Me too, but they pay up-front with sacks of small unmarked bills