How much of the $400 US goes towards the Apple branding in an iPOD?

J. said:
It's like judging a movie based on a bootleg copy from some schmo filming the movie within the theater.
I believe that you may be misinformed about MP3s. Unlike filming a movie with a video camera, creating an MP3 creates a digital copy from a digital medium. At a high enough bit rate, the differemce between the original CD and the MP3 is imperceptible to the human ear. This really isn't a debatable issue, it's a fact.

J. said:
I guess I'm just one of those people who finds some people with similar tastes in bands and music, gets some recommendations, researches the hell out of the band, and then buys it or doesn't. Downloading takes all the fun out of it, because by the time you throw on the actual legit copy, you've heard everything.
This point is a fair point. However, I don't buy most of what I check out. So, while I may miss the excitement factor of buying a great CD blind, I also miss the disappointment factor of buying something that sucks ass.

Zod
 
lurch70 said:
we went through this before, but buying a second hand cd on eBay OR from a firend OR traded here .... is the same shit as downloading to me.

Hmmm, I'm not sure about this, but oh well. Buying on eBay and trading usually accomplishes something which can't be done using standard online stores - you can get an out of print or hard to find item.

And I'm still not sure if that hurts the band, which is where it seems you're going with this. If I buy a CD from a store, and then later on decide to sell it, and someone from this forum buys it, how is that similar to downloading? I simply do not own that CD anymore, but someone else does. I don't burn, rip, or copy the CDs I sell, so it's still my store-bought copy out there, and that's it. The band didn't lose money on the deal; in fact they might gain more money if the buyer likes the CD and decides to go get the rest of the discography.
 
my point was that the artist DOES NOT GET ANY MONEY from any subsequent sales of their disc after the initial purchase.

your arguments apply to downloading also ... I liked bands before that after downloading a track or a full disc, i ended up buying their whole catalogue
 
lurch70 said:
my point was that the artist DOES NOT GET ANY MONEY from any subsequent sales of their disc after the initial purchase.

your arguments apply to downloading also ... I liked bands before that after downloading a track or a full disc, i ended up buying their whole catalogue

Yes, but a lot of individuals simply download and NEVER buy an actual album, like speed (no offense). With second hand copies, we know at least one copy was bought at one time, instead of a zine writer getting a full-length promo, then ripping the whole thing to his hard-drive, and then BAM, everyone's talking about the album months before it's release, which is ludicrous.

EDIT: Hell, I can almost empathize with labels that put some sort of copy protection on promos or even their CDs. It's gotten to the point of lunacy.

But I guess I should just accept popular culture and look for the cheap and easy way of doing things.

Nah, fuck that.
 
was just thinking (whoa) ... record companies make no sense to me.

in NYC in The Village, there must be at least a dozen second hand CD stores, all obviously making money off something someone once bought and they buy it and then resell it FOR THEIR OWN PROFIT. The labels/artists donot make money off of this. Yet, they do not target stores like this.

Now ... downloading ... you buy a CD, rip it, put it up on the net and DO NOT CHARGE A DIME for someone else to pull it from you, but yet they are having a big deal with this.

Now I am not sure, but technically once you own a CD and you decide to distribute it for ABSOLUTELY NO CHARGE ... how can they come after you?
 
lurch70 said:
in NYC in The Village, there must be at least a dozen second hand CD stores, all obviously making money off something someone once bought and they buy it and then resell it FOR THEIR OWN PROFIT. The labels/artists donot make money off of this. Yet, they do not target stores like this.

I read an interview with a record exec a while ago, and he mentioned going after second hand stores, and having a portion of the sale go to the artist. Don't know what ever came of this.
 
and life goes on ... i will always support an artist that is worth my dime, but buying anything and everything in this day and age blindly is silly.

personally I like to support bands by going to their shows ...
 
I don't agree with the argument equating second-hand sales to downloading. Once an album is purchased once, that money goes to the artist, while if it is downloaded instead of that purchase being made, no money goes to the artist. I don't think that the artist intends to sell one copy of their record more than one time, so I don't see why they would expect money from a resale. Once that album is purchased, the artist gets their money, the fan gets their album and everyone is content.

Now, if the buyer decides they suddenly don't like it, then they can sell it to someone who will and in turn, that person will likely go out and buy more albums from that band. So, second hand purchasing probably actually leads to more sales for that artist because not only did they expose one person with a single record, they exposed their music to two people and ended up getting not only the money from the original sale, but extra cash from the second buyer's likely future purchases. Now, had the original buyer decided to download in the first place, the artist never got any money whatsoever.

Yeah, the artist doesn't get a cut of the resale, but he still got the money from the original sale and I would assume that is all they expected to receive. If I personally put out an album, I wouldn't expect to make money off of one disc three or four times because it got passed around, after the initial purchase, what happens with the disc is up to your discretion, so long as you bought it in the first place and didn't download which would be the real ripoff to me.

I just can't equate the two because at some point the artist made money from a sale, while with downloading, they never made a penny and that is the biggest difference. You can argue all day that, "well, they didn't make money off of the resale," but the fact is, they still made cash from the original sale, which they wouldn't have made otherwise. And as I already addressed, an artist shouldn't expect to sell one disc numerous times and profit from it everytime, they got the payment for one disc from selling one disc and to me, that makes sense.
 
but most stuff that is online HAS been purchased by someone.
nice people that are special enough to get promos, do not upload them right? ... right? :D
 
downloadings source is promos. at least for the newer stuff. How do you explain people who aren't zine reviewers hearing the latest Moonsorrow? or Drudkh? Nokturnal Mortum?

Unless the band has the entire album for download on their website, some reviewer leaked those albums.

Which goes back to my empathy towards labels.
 
It's cool when I look at Opeth17's post I regress to Butt-head trying to read: "words.... uhhhh, words....." :loco:

I liked what Tool did before Lateralus came out, they put up a shitload of fake songs on teh intarweb to fool would be downloaders. That album was extremely high profile and was quite successful in keeping it under wraps, even their label came down hard on radio stations playing songs other than the previously released single. It was leaked about 2 days before official release I do believe.

By far my favorite album purchasing experience, I was literally shaking in anticipation as I ran into Target to buy it right when they opened. The hot girl working the register said "wow, this must be important" and I said "oh yes." Then when The Grudge came on I said "this is pretty damn good" then the ending hit and I was so overcome that I WENT FUCKING BLIND FOR 4 SECONDS. :jizz: :hotjump: :extra-inch-erection:
 
J. said:
downloadings source is promos. at least for the newer stuff. How do you explain people who aren't zine reviewers hearing the latest Moonsorrow? or Drudkh? Nokturnal Mortum?

Unless the band has the entire album for download on their website, some reviewer leaked those albums.

Which goes back to my empathy towards labels.

then it's reviewers and zines like this are to blame :loco:
 
J. said:
downloadings source is promos. at least for the newer stuff. How do you explain people who aren't zine reviewers hearing the latest Moonsorrow? or Drudkh? Nokturnal Mortum?

Unless the band has the entire album for download on their website, some reviewer leaked those albums.

Which goes back to my empathy towards labels.

With Drudkh, I imagine people bought the album in Europe and leaked it. Not even sure if releases like that get promos...?

Re: Moonsorrow and Nokturnal Mortum, yeah I suppose it could be leaked promos. With that said, many reviewers sell their promos or trade them away once they've reviewed it, so it may not be them directly leaking it. Still, they are responsible for the promo so they're still to blame in a way.

You can also buy promos on eBay, so it's possible that Joe Schmo gets his hands on a promo before the street date release and leaks it.

As for us, we don't do anything with our promos before the release date - that includes actually reviewing them half the time :lol:. We don't leak, don't trade, don't sell, etc. After the release date, it's up to the reviewer's discretion what to do with the promo, but the first rule is to offer it to another RC writer first.

The preference is for our writers to trade their promos for other promos with other writers. That way, the promo is circulated throughout the 'zine world and gets reviewed multiple times. Hell, Nate has sent me promos just because he didn't want to review them, but I did. We're still supporting the same artist, just across 'zines, which I think is actually cool.

Lastly, I would imagine that even if you love a promo, you're still going to buy the original. I just bought Mabool from Willowtip the other day and will probably buy the LP too. I've had that promo for a while now.

Side Thoughts:

Papa Josh has had a few ideas to give our promos away in competitions AFTER the official release date.

Promos go out in two batches -- (a) firstly to the big guns (Terrorizer, Unrestrained etc) and then (b) to the low-lifes like us. :loco: I know this to be true because by the time we've got promos in our hands, the press release is already quoting the reviews from (a) !!!!

Interestingly enough, the promos for the new Slough Feg have not even been printed yet....BUT go to the label website and there is an excerpt of a review for the album from Unrestrained. Just bizarre.

I have to imagine that some bands give out the CD-Rs of the new album to big publishing houses before the label even gets their grubby mitts on it. I know for a FACT that Jim Raggi (LotFP) had a CD-R of "The August Engine" a whole year before a label picked it up and decided to release it.

I tell you, there is a whole network out there, and it's not just writers with access to early releases.
 
J. said:
If I knew of a zine that reviews albums based on downloads, I'd laugh, and avoid that site altogether.

Agreed. Downloads are not the real deal, although if someone is just reviewing the music, I wonder how the review would differ?

Also, what is your thought on reviews of CD-Rs? 99.9999% of promos are CDs in slip cases with a single paragraph of text on the back (which is totally useless). Some promos are CDs in a plastic bag with accompanying photocopied press release. I'm not sure how a CD-R and a quick look on the band's website would change anything to the review.

I think I use this forum for band suggestions and ideas more than any 'zine review, and I bet the recommendations here are based on purchases, downloads or on-line samples. I don't think anyone differentiates a recommendation based on what the music source was.

And yes, you guys recommending something to me means more than any random fucker in a zine writing a review. We've started to learn each others tastes so the online community that we are has become well oiled. We are the strong. We will not be defeated. The doom of a nation can be averted only by a storm of flowing passion, but ONLY those who are passionate themselves can arouse passion in others!!!!!!11

:kickass: :lol:
 
And yes, you guys recommending something to me means more than any random fucker in a zine writing a review. We've started to learn each others tastes so the online community that we are has become well oiled. We are the strong. We will not be defeated. The doom of a nation can be averted only by a storm of flowing passion, but ONLY those who are passionate themselves can arouse passion in others!!!!!!11

this place is the biggest mish-mosh of misfits, colored people, ass sniffers and mutants I have ever had the pleasure of being a part of.
nobody likes the same bands (well maybe except for Drukdh) and there are trivial conversations about the identity of gook NAD.

GOD BLESS THIS HOUSE!
 
Josh Homme on myspace.com said:
and to the person who wants me to upload new tracks fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck you jackhole. i don't come to your work and tell you to give me big macs.
hahaha that rocks.