How to get "depth" and send to back/front the instruments

[Triscore]

Hey Guys!!

Any tips/suggestions/ideas to get more "Depth" in the mix, and send for example drums back in the mix but with a higher volumen?...etc etc

i have try haas effect,reverbs with differents pre-delays..etc but I don't like at the moment the result...maybe I done wrong (it's probably). So...give me please any tip if you know something

other question: you apply the haas effect,reverb for rythm guitars to send back/front? Or nothing process to this?

Thanks friends!

Tris

 

[Triscore]

No post? :S

You will not start the 3rd World War for posting here something hahaha

come on....play

Cheers

 

[deathtotaliban]

With your drums you should be able to achieve a nice amount of depth if you are panning your individual tracks correctly. Once you have that down, then eq'ing the tracks appropriately is a must, cutting low end (below 600hz for metal) on the OH mics, shaping the kick in the low end to share space with the bass guitar, etc. Once you have your individual tracks sounding sick, then your going to have a much easier time applying reverb, chorus, or delay to get that depth your talking about. If this is metal we are talking about your gunna want to use those tools sparingly or you'll end up with some buried drum sounds instead of in your face, deep drum sounds. Happy experimenting

Jordan

 

[ahjteam]

3.5khz, wide cut or boost

 

[jval]

cutting or adding high end
delays

 

[Triscore]

Hey!!

Amazing answers guys!,thanks to all,really

I will to try some tips that you have said in this post. i think that my mixes needs more depth, and sometimes can get and sometimes not,but never I'm happy with the end result, I need more depth It's possible that sound a bit dry too...

So...haas effects and other tips is not good for this?, I like more the sound that can give me a reverb with differents Pre-delay than the delays or haas-effect, but maybe I'm doing something wrong.

The tip are in the drums,right?,good panning,good eq,etc etc,nothing more for the bass,guitars?. Arghhhh This is more difficult than win the champions league!

Thanks guys!

 

[BLUElightCory]

You can try experimenting with compression (specifically with attack times) to push instruments forward or back in a mix.

Using a faster attack will soften transients and prevent instruments from poking out in the mix; this is useful for pushing instruments to the "back" of the mix.

Using a slower attack (or no compression) will allow more of the initial transient to come through, which will make the instrument feel more up-front and "in your face."

 

[Triscore]

Thanks!! BLUElightCory

Yes, I know this thing, but with compression I not get the depth that I need, anyway I will to try more in this part, and I will say something

Any tips?, come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

 

[colonel kurtz]

i would say that tracking in a good room, and using exceptional preamps and conversion would definitely add to one's ability to achieve depth and spaciousness in their recordings

 

[ahjteam]

Thanks!! BLUElightCory

Yes, I know this thing, but with compression I not get the depth that I need, anyway I will to try more in this part, and I will say something

Any tips?, come onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

did you even try the EQ trick I posted earlier?

 

[shred101]

I did and for the record it was easily most conveniant solution.

 

[ahjteam]

And here is a sound example on a mix:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1338211/eq_distance.mp3


Only the gain changes with the automation

 

[Russtopher]

Mint.

Just did the slight boost at 3.5khz on some guitars and it made a world of difference. I kept trying to pull out lows to make them less muddy/stand out without raising the volume any more, and the slight boost did the trick. It was easy to tell how much was *too much*.

 

[BLUElightCory]

Remember the old Jimmy Page quote - Distance = Depth.

If you want to create a sense of space in your mix, you're probably going to want to have a few instruments in there that are tracked with mics placed at a distance from the source, i.e. room mics on drums/gtrs and that sort of thing.

You can also experiment with different reverb types; a good reverb (especially convolution reverbs) can do a great job at simulating different spaces and reflection types.

 

[shred101]

Im probably about to give the shittest, worst explanation of a concept ever but oh well, here goes...

A cheat I sometimes use to get more depth is to take a mix of the entire rhythm track with vox/cymbals/lead guitar + anything "treble" ***muted*** through a patch on my desk called "early reflections".
Its basically a generic reverb/delay type effect that simulates the reflections that a real room has. Theres a bunch of dfferent settings for the type of reflections on it too.

So ill run a stereo mix of the rhythm track through a patch of this kind at a pre-dalay of 0 ms, reflection time of between 0-10ms, reflection value set to "tight", 100% wet ratio and record the output from it.

If you can find the right type of patch (mine is a korg but I've found that each patch sounds different so it might not work for you) you should have a stereo track of something that sounds like a really mid/low heavy version of your rhythm track mix with a bit of sub in it. Kinda like listening to a big mono tv speaker.
Copy it it to a stereo track and compress the shit out of it to keep the low end under control and eq it to get rid of the extreme highs, the extreme muddy lows and to make sure theres no nasty resonances/harshness generated by the patch. I sometimes even use a bandpass filter or multiband limiters on the tracks.

Then pan it left/right to your own personal taste and run it under your rhythm track at a low (I mean seriously low) volume. Just enough so that you can hear the difference. Then you can start to tweak the settings for eq, compression, etc. on your new "reflection tracks".

You can do separate ones for drums/guitar/etc. as well if you can handle the track count on your setup. Its much more flexible this way anyway. The idea is to simulate the real reflections that you would pick up from a real band with real musicians playing real gear in a real room which is whats lacking from all these amp simulators/drum programs/ computer synths/etc.

I wasnt sure, the first time I thought of this, wether to expect phase problems or not but I havent had any severe issues out of it. As long as you keep an eye on the settings and make sure to align the output track with your rhythm tracks really well then you should be ok. Just go by ear and scrap it if maybe your ER patch isnt up to the job or gives you phase problems.

Also bear in mind that im using Korg ER patches and you wont get these for computer based programs which means that you probably can't expect to replicate my own results. You'll just have to experiment with a bunch of ER patches.

Depending on what you mix on, you could probably use a 100% wet ER patch in an effect send and route each instrument to it separately according to how much reflection you want from each instrument. This would be easier than the method I described but you might not be able to eq/compress the "reflections" afterwards (which I think can be important due to the way my ER patch sounds).

 

[Triscore]

Thanks a lot to all for the replies!!, really amazing your support guys.

The EQ tip is a good point to start, for individual tracks can get more or less depth, good!!, but I think that the "depth" than I speaking about is more near than shred101 answer. I try some adjustment like this and works well, I' m going to try this man!! And I will say to you if I get the sound that I'm looking for...

I try the Haas effect to...but I don't like much the sound or I'm doing something wrong. The similar"depth" that I talking about is when you have put and Ozone and take a preset and in the stereo image have a "delay" with ms to differents freqs. And say "woao" this is the depth that I need!!,but in this have 2 problems:

1- I don't like presets for nothing plugs
2- I don't like the overall sound of the mix when Listen with this part of Ozone

so...I will try differents points of view

thanks! And feel free to comments more about this interesting effect

 

[shred101]

Well you do realize that to do it my way you have to actually have your rhythm tracks, done, mixed, as good as finished including all the EQ, compression, everything? Ahj's method is much more useful when it actually comes to a mix. Mines more of a finisher.

Get the mix done as good as you can before you even think about sinking in a reflection track.