how to get a BIG tom sound

arv_foh

arv_foh

Brian K
Oct 3, 2006
2,691
2
36
Columbus, OH
Hey guys... well, the title says it all pretty much. When I am doing my mixes, I am happy with pretty much everything except the toms. I just can't get these huge, punchy tom sounds like you hear in professional productions done by board members... a la Joey, Brian Hood, Ermz, etc.

I just don't know what I'm doing wrong--my toms chain consists of something like this: ddrum trigger>pre>aptrigga2>slate sample (I'm using the Maple Toms)

Then my plugin chain: Logic EQ>Clipper (Bitcrusher used as a clipper, thanks to TheDriller for that tip!)

Then I send the toms to a bus, and apply a small amount of compression (2-5dB) and Stillwell's Transient Designer to increase the attack. All the drums are sent to a bus and I use Space Designer to apply an Acousticas M7 impulse for drum verb.

Here is a sample of a mix I did recently where I am "semi happy" with the toms but I know they could be better:

http://www.btkphoto.com/music/sotc_battle_newmixjan10.mp3

Any tips you can offer would be much appreciated... I know Joey said in a previous thread he uses Waves MaxxBass on toms, but I don't have an iLok, and I don't think that one plugin will be the solution to my problem.. and I'm pretty sure you guys (except Ermz I'm not sure) are using the Slate Toms to get your sounds... :headbang:
 
I find Slate toms are tuned too high for my taste. The S2.0 toms seem to sound amazing (altho Ive never personally used them). Joey does a good job of making the Slate toms work though. I'd cut around 300hz on all the toms, otherwise they just stick out too much.

And if you want super huge toms with not much attack (so you 'feel' them more than they punch you in the face, I really like this, huge lowend).. EQ everything below 1khz with a lowshelf at -18db, then clip and limit all the attack out, then put the lowend back in with another lowshelf at 1khz with like +15db. But not for everyone's taste.
 
Maybe I'm just using the wrong Slate samples for this type of music. What you mentioned is exactly what I'm not going for--haha--when I have toms with a ton of low end, I think it's really distracting to the mix.

For EQ, I dropped some 500 from the rack and 250 from the floor, and added some 3k for a bit more warmth and attack.

I just want my toms to stand out in the mix--they just don't seem to have the clarity I would like.
 
What morgan said, but also add some parallel compression and use the joey trick (adding a harmonic enhancer to the low end of the toms). Ermz wrote a nice response in the "how to mix drums" thread about getting instant phat drums
 
Originally Posted by Ermz View Post
If you're using the Avatar library then you have some fantastic snares, toms and rooms right off the bat. Fight the urge to over-process. That's your biggest enemy.

Ok here is your golden plug-in:

Waves SSL E-channel

The in-line EQ and compressor on this thing works great on drums. Start minimalistic, don't go overboard, just tweak the EQ, do some mid cuts, and some high and low boosts to give fidelity to the drums.

-Kick and snare work great if you turn the shelf into a bell boost. You get more definition and cut from the boosts. 300 to 500hz can be your problem areas if things are a little too muddy.
-Suck 600 to 800 and 200 to 300hz on the toms, crank the highs with a shelf, and bell boost the lows at like 70hz. Fast attack on the compressor, ratio maybe 3 or 4. Take off around 3 to 6dB, to taste. Instant fatness.
-Hit the overheads with fast attack compression, 4:1 ratio, but VERY LIGHTLY. I'm talking barely any movement at all. Just something to add a bit of excitement.
-With all of these settings, always have the compressor release at its fastest (100ms).
-Slam the living shit out of the room. Like 10 to 20dB, all buttons in on an 1176 style plug-in if you have one. This will effectively turn the room mics into reverb ambiance. Just a wash of awesomeness to fill out the back and add air. Use the mid and far field room mics too. Throw the snare into them - no need for anything else.
-Consider cutting the cymbals and hats from the room mics a fair bit. Also consider cutting the hats from OHs if you need. EQ to taste. Then slowly bring it up into the back of your drum mix. It will unify everything and virtually negate the need for a reverb.
-Kicks sometimes like a 50 or 60hz sinewave side-chain gated to them. Just enough to fill out the subs. If I'm not mistaken, Randy is still fond of this. It's a similar thing to using Joey's harmonic enhancement suggestion.

SD2.0 is almost there for you. All you're doing is tailoring work. Getting it that little bit more punchy and clear
 
Maybe the high shelf is what I need. Everything else I'm doing already. I don't have any of the Waves plugs, a little too expensive for my blood.

EDIT: I think adding the high shelf is putting me in the ballpark. Thanks guys.
 
Don't need the waves plugs, can use other eq's and comps as a starting point using similar settings, then tweak.
 
Morgan C said:
And if you want super huge toms with not much attack (so you 'feel' them more than they punch you in the face, I really like this, huge lowend).. EQ everything below 1khz with a lowshelf at -18db, then clip and limit all the attack out, then put the lowend back in with another lowshelf at 1khz with like +15db. But not for everyone's taste.
Click to expand...

wait... say that again please :err: ?

are you talking about printing fx, or a chain here?
 
SENMD421II.jpg
ahah but really try one!
 
way way way way too much overtones on the toms
and its hard to hear this mix to hear the detail in the toms
too many frequencies battling it out
and for amazing tom sounds
have a mono room mic and a stereo set of room mics
along with the overheads
just that alone makes toms ( DRUMS EVEN ) sound huge
then EQing and such does the rest for the trick
 
ahh ya?? im looking to buy one and not just use my friends haha

ya i have such a shitty room it hurts 12x12 room made of wood and soundboard :( :( :(
 
i use slate, but usually go with the Metal toms. i find those have more depth.

also, as mentioned above, i usually lower the pitch a tad. don't really EQ too much, but do send them through some parallel comp that really beefs them up as well as some nice verb w/ the predelay set to let the initial trans through.

my biggest component, though, has to be the TLS-2095 Limiting Amplifier. i don't use it anywhere but on the toms. it just seems to fit perfectly there for some odd reason. nothing else comes close.
 
schust said:
i use slate, but usually go with the Metal toms. i find those have more depth.

also, as mentioned above, i usually lower the pitch a tad. don't really EQ too much, but do send them through some parallel comp that really beefs them up as well as some nice verb w/ the predelay set to let the initial trans through.

my biggest component, though, has to be the TLS-2095 Limiting Amplifier. i don't use it anywhere but on the toms. it just seems to fit perfectly there for some odd reason. nothing else comes close.
Click to expand...

Sucks that's VST only. I'm using Logic so I need AUs
 
Wow dude, waaayy to many overtones on those toms, a lot of unecessary low mids that's clashing with other instruments, take out (as much as you think it's necessary) in between the range of 200hz to 300hz... those toms are WAY too boomy IMO, also the rest isnt helping much, theres way too much high end overall, go easy there, it hurts a lot to hear although that it's off-topic though. I think you have much more to fix in your mix than your toms, and I don't think the maple toms are bad, they're actually my favourite toms from the slate library (LE), here's a mix with them, it's a song from the forum from a long time ago, but it's the only mix in there I used the maple toms: http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7553974

Also here's a mix with natural drums (except kick) : http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7553996/http://soundclick.com/share?songid=8088348, toms had skins over a year old, you just have to play with EQ and bring out the natural elements of each instrument, in this case each tom for example, cut out offending frequencies, overtones, sub-harmonics etc... Also using compression wisely is also a big key element. That's not a perfect mix obviously, it was my first full work a couple years ago (record, mix and master), but I think drum tones came out pretty good, toms are pretty big, there's a lot of room there as well which is another big element to drum tones.
 
There is no real magic art to it. Toms are some of the easiest drums to get right, provided the source is good. The usual procedure is to suck out all those low mids and papery ones until the drum stops sounding like cardboard and really opens up. Then you boost the attack with a high shelf or bell EQ, and maybe beef up the lows to add weight to the toms. The air should be coming from the overheads, and the room mics should be adding subtle fatness in the back too. Compression to even them out and enhance the punch and attack - pretty standard fare as for all drums. Parallel compression can be used if you want more tone and body from the toms, but you have to watch out because they can get muddy in a hurry here. Use it sparingly.

The low-end 'tricks' and all that is not something I use. I also rarely ever use the Slate tom samples. Toms by nature are nasty to trigger and can get you to the 80s in a hurry. Slate's toms in particular sound extremely distinctive, and since toms are usually single samples, you're going to add that trait to your mix straight away. It's a last resort for me.
 
^ Agree entirely. Toms are the easiest part of drums to get right, never really felt a struggle and also agree with your tips. But I too think the OP need to pay more attention to other details in his mix in order to get toms right
 
Thanks for all your comments guys. I have nice tom mics so I think I'm going to try miking them up next time, instead of triggers.

@Sptz - Would you mind commenting on some of the other things that need fixed? I brought down the hi's/hi-mids, I was using a multi-band comp and boosting hi mids on the master bus by about 4db.

I think part of this problem is my monitoring setup. Rockit 5s are ok for what they are but I really have trouble hearing low mids and lows when they stick out.

I think I overcompressed the toms and that was what made them too boomy. I took the compressor completely off the toms bus and used a clipper instead, and applied light compression to the individual channels. They still don't sit that well in the mix though, I don't think. Maybe I'm being overly critical?

http://www.btkphoto.com/music/sotc_newmix_jan13.mp3
 
arv_foh:

I don't think you should be using a multi-band comp in the master bus unless you *REALLY* need it. I think toms are still boomy, not enough punch nor presence. I think guitar tone isn't very good and also how are you compressing on your master bus? The whole mix is compressing a bit. I think overheads are still a bit offending. The thing is I'm listening on my cans, I'm not in the studio right now so it's a bit difficult to analyze throughly. But you still need to take off a bit of low mids in the toms, mainly the rack ones
 
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