How to get your snare LOUD

[BassTard]

Hey folks,

did you ever have trouble with your snare getting lost in the mastering? This problem is caused by the typical snare-transients: they have got a high level but since they are very fast (short in time) the effective value is quite low. To hear a fine snare with lots of impact you tend to mix it loud - but when that damned multiband-limiting comes in... uke:

People try to control the transients with a fast limiter, but a way that I found much more effective is actually digital clipping. You can clip snare-sounds quite hard, because the peak is that short, do it until you hear audible distortion - then take back the volume just a bit. This will give you about 4.5 dB more headroom, while the snare is seeming just as loud as before.
Sometimes I then take a look and my "new" attack (in then wave editor), and notice it's length (often about 10ms longer). If you like to, you can now bring this (apparently) louder attack up, using a transient-plug like Dominion.

I remember a thread about losing snare at Gearslutz - Andy was telling, that he bought a finalizer to mix through it (because of this problem) - and I know that some people actually do "clip-mastering".

If you want it controlled, just use clipping on your snare-tracks or -samples. I made some good experiences with the GClip-Plugin from GVST.

After all, don't fight the loudness-war! Mastering can easily become sound-killing.

Stay heavy, greetings,
Henning

 

[Fredrik-Ablaze]

Great tip! What about the bassdrum getting lost when mixing? It's a constant problem for me

 

[BassTard]

You might try a little Clipping as well, but first be sure that you EQ'd it right. Metalheads tend to have no mids in the kick at all, that might lead to inaudibility. A little bit of limiting on the kick works fine as well (and adds a little smack as well...)

EDIT:
And cut the low frequencies of all tracks - except for kick and bass!
If you still have problems you might duck the bassgit with a compressor using the kick in the sidechain (usefull if your bass-player doesn't play along with the kickdrum).

 

[botus99]

hmmm, this definately sounds like a good idea to me! Thanks for the tip

 

[felipe-x]

can anybody tell mi some tips to have a nice natural snare no sample please? im kind of tire of using samples..

i have a cool natural kick but now im trying to get a natural snare

anyone?

thnks!

 

[Kevin Kitchel]

can anybody tell mi some tips to have a nice natural snare no sample please? im kind of tire of using samples..

i have a cool natural kick but now im trying to get a natural snare

anyone?

thnks!

Try a very small diaphragm condenser micing the shell of a snare drum.

 

[Tym_ex]

I've been using this very technique for a while now, works great!

 

[greyskull]

my top tip is to have a mastering limiter in the master bus. Bypassed untill you think youve got a good mix, then once you think you're there. turn it on (cranked really hard), and listen to your mix get fucked. Then adjust your mix so you can hear the snare and everything else again, then turn the limiter off.

 

[BassTard]

my top tip is to have a mastering limiter in the master bus.

Yeah, that technique is great, too. I send my mix through a TC Finalizer (got that idea from Andy at Gearslutz) and what you hear is what you get. Helped me a lot to prevent snare-soaking.
But, the clip-snare is a different approach - combine both techniques and you'll be a happy man!

 

[Kevin Kitchel]

None of you guys mix for vinyl, huh?

 

[greyskull]

woss dat den ?
lol

 

[Keessi]

can anybody tell mi some tips to have a nice natural snare no sample please?
thnks!

Well tuned snare and well played. top and bottom mics of course and compression and some eq(or multiband compression like C4) to clear out the possible muddyness in the low mids of the top mic. works like a charm for me.

 

[brandy]

Just don't use multiband-limiting in the mastering ;-)


Serious: If one don't want to clip the snare (myself ;-) he should take care to mix snare (same for leadvox btw) "wide" - i am talking of the frequencys here... If you just have that 3khz *crack* and some 160 hz beef the snare will propably get lost.

Listen to some cool 80ies recordings... and watch the snare in the analyzer if you need. The snare is there in all frequency areas. Will never get lost.


brandy

 

[BattleTits]

I think you should reexamine how you EQ if you need to resort to clipping the snare. Don't get me wrong, Metal is tougher to get the snare to peak through the guitars, but it can be done without clipping.

For example, I always boost in the 200-250hz area and cut anything under 80hz. I don't cut anything else though...this is kind of in line with what Brandy posted.

Then I boost around 6k and 8k..finally I do a boost in the highs..you have to be gentle here, but you can boost a shelf on snare at 10k sometimes and get a real nice sound...Sometimes the 3k boost is clashing with gtrs but I also try that.

Main point is that you really can push the highs in snare to get it to come through in a mix, and you will not have to clip at all.

Your snare sound and sample is of course of HUGE importance.

 

[Kevin Kitchel]

When I was first getting started, an engineer told me about getting the snare to have a full bandwidth sound. He would actually key white noise via the snare with some compression that would chomp down after the attack for snares that had no body. Some subtractive EQ to get it to match, and you're gold.

This is from a dude who worked with everyone from Frank Sinatra to RATT.

 

[BloodyMurderKaraoke]

When I was first getting started, an engineer told me about getting the snare to have a full bandwidth sound. He would actually key white noise via the snare with some compression that would chomp down after the attack for snares that had no body. Some subtractive EQ to get it to match, and you're gold.

This is from a dude who worked with everyone from Frank Sinatra to RATT.

Please elaborate. I'm guessing using triggering to play some full spectrum noise with a semi fast attack and a huge ratio, and taking out the snap and airy frequencies with EQ?

Thanks

 

[Student]

When I was first getting started, an engineer told me about getting the snare to have a full bandwidth sound. He would actually key white noise via the snare with some compression that would chomp down after the attack for snares that had no body. Some subtractive EQ to get it to match, and you're gold.

This is from a dude who worked with everyone from Frank Sinatra to RATT.

I've seen it done...sounds nice sometimes, just torturing the mix can be rewarding.

+1 to top and bottom miking...I recommend miking the snare port at 45 degreees if you have only one mic.

 

[ahjteam]

Please elaborate. I'm guessing using triggering to play some full spectrum noise with a semi fast attack and a huge ratio, and taking out the snap and airy frequencies with EQ?

Thanks

I tried this sidechained gate on white noise, it gives you kinda bottom mic'ish sound

 

[Sickan]

If you like to, you can now bring this (apparently) louder attack up, using a transient-plug like Dominion.

What settings would you use on dominion?

//Sickan