Is there a way not to loose the snare w/o Gclip ITB?

[abyssofdreams]

I'm more than satisfied with my mix levels, once I try to raise the volume for decent RMS levels the snare transients get "destroyed" and results in a punchless, washy distant sound ducking on the hits all the time if I try to limit and stuff.

Yes, old problem, losta threads on this topic but still, without routing to outboard, clipping/limiting there and routing back ITB is there a way to do this the plugin way without ruining the snare?

Gclip fucks with the guitar tracks and adds some unpleasant crackling/noise which I cannot dismiss. I can hear it every time and it is annoying as hell.

Just limiting, no matter what I use kills the snare every time.

How do you counter this problem? What is the best go-to solution?

And as for loudness... I don't need anything really above -10db average, that is loud enough for me but still the results are very bad when I run the whole mix through Gclip and/or a final limiter set to -0.3

 

[abyssofdreams]

btw I simply meant that the attack of the snare gets lost due to the ducking from the limiter...

 

[abyssofdreams]

and with those noises I meant digital distortion

so there...

 

[006]

A lot of people recommend to send all the tracks to a bus, except the snare, let the snare go to the 2bus. In the bus with everything else, add the limiter to that and get vox/gtrs/bass/anything else to the level you want, then blend that and your snare track in the 2bus, using a light limiter on that just to make sure it doesn't go over. Otherwise, you are going to have to automate the limiter on the 2bus so it doesn't duck, or tweak your mix until you can get it to where it doesn't duck using the settings you need to get the dB you want. I haven't tried the 1st method I mentioned yet, may do it on the upcoming project here in a couple of weeks.

~006

 

[Jarkko Mattheiszen]

Strange. How do you use Gclip? I usually put two of them on the master bus with very light clipping, 2x Oversample checked, and haven't had any problems.

 

[Jaymz]

IME I only find Gclip to crackle everything up when I push it too hard.

 

[abyssofdreams]

Strange. How do you use Gclip? I usually put two of them on the master bus with very light clipping, 2x Oversample checked, and haven't had any problems.

Solo your guitars and mute everything else.
Put one Gclip on your 2bus and A/B with it on and off while you playback your guitars at the same volume, of course. You'll hear what I mean. The sound of the guitars is altered slightly because of the internal processing of the Gclip.

I usually use it very light also, maybe doing 1-2 db with 2x oversampling as well. I leave the softening as well as the clipping at 0/default.

 

[abyssofdreams]

IME I only find Gclip to crackle everything up when I push it too hard.

I'm not talking about the distortion when clipping occurs but the overall distortion of Gclip on a busy mix. I can't be the only one to hear this?

I wouldn't have a problem if it was so subtle that I couldn't hear it in a mix but unfortunately I can hear it quite obvious now that I know how that effect sounds after all...

I'm thinking about putting the Gclip on the snare track only and clipping it hard so that at least the body and some attack is still there and just using a limiter on the 2bus to get it to decent volumes.

 

[Ermz]

Your best bet is to clip the snare track individually, so an instance of Gclip on your snare channel, after all the plug-ins. You can take a fair few dB off if you're using something punchy like the slate samples. What you'll find is due to the snare transient being squared off your master bus limiter doesn't need to work as hard and you'll get a less pumpy mix with more snare transient intact!

 

[abyssofdreams]

yes which is what I was saying with my last post
but thanks for confirming my idea.

 

[Deadstar]

i hear the same .. it seems gclip slightly destroy guitars.. but it must be mix shitty mix skill.. i've passed from 1.5 db each gclip to 1 about

 

[punkrockacademyfightsong]

lately I find myself using aradez maximizer as last step in the mastering chain. it does some nice transparent clipping / limiting and really gets you from -11 RMS to -9 without artifacts and without eating the snaredrum!

it´s free!
check it out: http://aradaz.blogspot.com/search/label/VST - Aradaz Maximizer
I use version 1.3, I believe there´s a newer one too but I haven´t found the need to try it.

 

[wishtheend]

I would only clip the snare buss. If you are using Gclip on the master, and using 2 in-line with maybe only a 1-2db cuts, you shouldn't hear any artifacts. If you do, the track is probably hot enough. So yeah, just clip the snare on it's own buss.

 

[ahjteam]

What readings do your master peaks give as a reading with the clippers and limiters bypassed? over zero dBFS?

edit: and what is your idea of "decent RMS levels"? If its somewhere between -18 and -10dbFS, thats fine, but if its above it like -8dBFS to -5dBFS, I think you shouldn't do it if it sounds good without it. Some air has never killed a song, even in metal.

 

[Soundlurker]

Try lowering everything but the snare.

 

[MarcusD777]

yea I hear the same thing with Gclip on the 2buss as well... It always adds some harshness to the whole mix even when used lightly... The Event Horizon on the 2 buss in clip mode does the same thing just not as noticable as Gclip... I rarely turn up the soft clip on Event Horizon if I use it on the mix but it works great on a snare or kick buss... I would just go the with clipping the snare bus route as mentioned before rather than trying to do it on the 2 bus...

 

[brandy]

Why clipping the snare in the mix?

I never used GClip but I do like some decent clipping during mastering, I use Voxengo Elephant3 for that - but be carefull not to clip guitars and stuff - just some transjents and overshots...

 

[Erkan]

I used Gclip on the 2bus on my summer project, but I don't think I would use it there again, even if I hadn't read this thread. To me, it feels like it's better to use Gclip on individual tracks that need it, rather than a sum of all. And guitars should definately not get clipped imo, it just feels wrong... it ought to sound awful!

Also, one trick I used was to find the sharp attack on the snare, look up its frequency, then do surgical EQ on the guitars on that exact frequency. It really helps bringing the crack out through the mix, did for me atleast, and the guitars didn't suffer that much. It was worth it for the benefit of the whole mix, I don't care if the guitars lose a small part of their sound if it'll help the whole mix.

 

[brandy]

Also, one trick I used was to find the sharp attack on the snare, look up its frequency, then do surgical EQ on the guitars on that exact frequency. It really helps bringing the crack out through the mix, did for me atleast, and the guitars didn't suffer that much. It was worth it for the benefit of the whole mix, I don't care if the guitars lose a small part of their sound if it'll help the whole mix.

Yea - this is the art of mixing!!

 

[Erkan]

Yea - this is the art of mixing!!

Cool to hear that my little tip (which probably almost everybody knows already) is called "art of mixing". I'm just a rookie, learning stuff as life flows

I can add that after doing that surgical cut in the guitars, I boosted the freqs that are immediately below and above the cut, with pretty high Q values, to sort of compensate. Don't know if this thing is really needed but I figured if I cut somewhere, I should compensate, and doing so under and over the cut didn't mud up the snare crack so... it was all well

Come to think of it, I listened to a couple of my own songs today, from that summer project, and damn the snare is cracking like a planet through the mix! I hope I never have problems with snares vanishing in mixes. The only thing I badly regret is the terribly recorded bass, which was played by me who can't play bass in a clean way, so I had to cut a lot of upper mids to reduce sizzle fizzle shrizzle noises Resulted in a very sub-bass bass sound. Ooops, I'm drilling away off-topic here...