How to have peace

infoterror

Member
Apr 17, 2005
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How to Have Peace, Finally

1. End Envy. When everyone in society competes for money alone, envy and resentment run high and so does sleight of hand behavior. Let's stop the rat race. In a healthy culture, every job is important and given its place, and no one is left to rot at the bottom of the competitive heap except blatant incompetents.

2. Reduce pollution and urban blight. We're all scrabbling toward the top of the pile so we don't get left in a ghetto. But running away to the suburbs no longer protects us from deranged urban dwellers. A solution is to fix our cities and o put some people in jail for life if all they do is destroy things.

3. Kick our oil dependency. Oil is our heroin, our crack, our meth. We need a certain amount of it to run our economy. But do we really need individual cars, especially since they don't help us outrun the mess of the city? Do we really need all of these products? We can do just as well with less, and in fact be happier.

4. Support diversity. To have diversity, you need to have distinct ethnic groups. If you try to combine these groups, they'll fight for their own right to exist as a group and cause the ethnic warfare common to multicultural society. Let the ethnic groups separate and stop viewing such separation as a taboo "racism."

5. Don't try to hide different abilities. Billy is a genius, but Mary is a world-class athlete. We get embarrassed for both of these kids because they can't do something the other can. Let's end that charade. We're all different and we each have a place in the world. We don't need to be "equal" to be OK, and trying to force "equality" causes mayhem.

6. Allow people to live according to chosen values, even if they seem grotesque to us. In the west, our newspapers tell us that Muslims are primitive, women-abusing, tribal societies. But there is no science or philosophy that tells us reliability that such lifestyles are "bad." Tolerate difference.

7. Stop the war on drugs. Some people are gonna take 'em, and some are gonna drink to excess. Just keep them away from the kids and when they're observed screwing up on the job, fire them. We cannot afford the violence and police militarization of the war on drugs.

8. Forget the war between the sexes. If being equal means we gotta fight and have the 50% chance of divorce for every marriage we have, forget it. Let's respect each other for what we are and try to get along with more respect. "Equality" might be an illusory goal, since we've each got different equipment, inside and out, but respect and compassion are eternal.

9. Reverence. We're so busy chasing the holy dollar we've forgotten what it is to love life. Ancient monks in secluded monasteries saw intense concentration on tasks and appreciation of life as a form of prayer. Maybe this kind of soul stillness and inner beauty is missing in our lives, and we need to bring it back.

10. Open-mindedness. "Tolerance" implies not liking something, but putting up with it. Instead, we should try to understand that we each have different paths, and there is no ordained single route to glory. There are some things that are a good idea for everyone, but you have to do it for yourself. Be open-minded in the original meaning -- we know the goal, but there's more than one way to get there.

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^Seconded.
But you'll never get rid of envy though.
It applies to so much more than just money.
Practically anything can be envied..
 
infoterror said:
4. Support diversity. To have diversity, you need to have distinct ethnic groups. If you try to combine these groups, they'll fight for their own right to exist as a group and cause the ethnic warfare common to multicultural society. Let the ethnic groups separate and stop viewing such separation as a taboo "racism."


This message brought to you by AAAWL:
http://www.corrupt.org/


Darn it, I can't get to that site either. Stupid filter, and stupid "Hate/Discrimination" block....



Yeah, I think the crux of the matter is in the piece I quoted above. Glad to see everyone else agrees with this racial separatism.

You guys make me ashamed to be metal.
 
I agree with this for the most part. In a way its a progression to true socialist, and fairness for everyone to acheieve the best at what they can and should do.
You can get rid of envy, it just means you have to stop seeing youself as individual and isolated, but more as an important part in the web of life that exists all around you with all the people you will interact with. In a way its the end result of a Marxist type communism but its the intermediate step that stops the progression. People say communism wouldn't work because people would get lazy because they have no motive to become better, but isnt the betterment of everyone, including yourself, in their best interest. All jobs should be fitted by the skills interests and abbillities of the individual to maximize the satisfaction of doing good work. Some of the worlds biggest problems of the world are based from capitalist greed and exploitation. Such as the destruction of the environment for profit. The earth is being filled with toxins and like our own bodies, it can't function and support life to the maximum if it can't operate at maximum.
If survival is suppose to be the instinct that we all have to motivate us to do something, then why do we, the dominators of the earth do so much to destroy it.

I like to think of life as not what you experience, but the experience of other people.
 
Good point. I think socialism works IF there is some higher value than money in the society. That requires a bigger social order than most socialist states will impose, but, in this light, I don't think it's impossible to be simultaneously conservative, liberal/"libertarian"/quasi-anarchist and socialist.
 
Ok this is just rediculous. I'm not even gonna read it. PEACE IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. The hippies tried to prove us wrong in the 60's but they ended up in their own filth. You can fix society, you can end the politics and the greed, but their is always going to be evil.....always.
 
infoterror said:
Good point. I think socialism works IF there is some higher value than money in the society. That requires a bigger social order than most socialist states will impose, but, in this light, I don't think it's impossible to be simultaneously conservative, liberal/"libertarian"/quasi-anarchist and socialist.

we really need to eliminate the us and them idea, and think, just us.
Firstly, we would need to get rid of structured dogmatic beliefs to break down the barriers that cause so much of our conflict. As a species we need to leave our egos of right and wrong, and just do what can help everyone.

The first step would be to stop all millitary funding and give food and resouces to raise the standard of living all over the world. Second would be to stop the repression of technology for control, which I know for a fact happens. Such a developer of certain hydrogen cells for cars and such go into big deals with car companies only to have the companies buy up most of the shares and bow to the demands of oil lords to suppress alternative trasportation energy.
We are only addicted to oil because we have no real alternative to it. And if you monopolized the resources you have complete control.

Same goes for drug companies. They have the resources to help people, but it doesn't generate profit to cure people. Profit is gained from medication dependency, and the movements for banning such things as vitamins and herbal supplements are a clear reach for the control of the health industry.
 
infoterror said:
How to Have Peace, Finally

1. End Envy. When everyone in society competes for money alone, envy and resentment run high and so does sleight of hand behavior. Let's stop the rat race. In a healthy culture, every job is important and given its place, and no one is left to rot at the bottom of the competitive heap except blatant incompetents.

2. Reduce pollution and urban blight. We're all scrabbling toward the top of the pile so we don't get left in a ghetto. But running away to the suburbs no longer protects us from deranged urban dwellers. A solution is to fix our cities and o put some people in jail for life if all they do is destroy things.

3. Kick our oil dependency. Oil is our heroin, our crack, our meth. We need a certain amount of it to run our economy. But do we really need individual cars, especially since they don't help us outrun the mess of the city? Do we really need all of these products? We can do just as well with less, and in fact be happier.

4. Support diversity. To have diversity, you need to have distinct ethnic groups. If you try to combine these groups, they'll fight for their own right to exist as a group and cause the ethnic warfare common to multicultural society. Let the ethnic groups separate and stop viewing such separation as a taboo "racism."

5. Don't try to hide different abilities. Billy is a genius, but Mary is a world-class athlete. We get embarrassed for both of these kids because they can't do something the other can. Let's end that charade. We're all different and we each have a place in the world. We don't need to be "equal" to be OK, and trying to force "equality" causes mayhem.

6. Allow people to live according to chosen values, even if they seem grotesque to us. In the west, our newspapers tell us that Muslims are primitive, women-abusing, tribal societies. But there is no science or philosophy that tells us reliability that such lifestyles are "bad." Tolerate difference.

7. Stop the war on drugs. Some people are gonna take 'em, and some are gonna drink to excess. Just keep them away from the kids and when they're observed screwing up on the job, fire them. We cannot afford the violence and police militarization of the war on drugs.

8. Forget the war between the sexes. If being equal means we gotta fight and have the 50% chance of divorce for every marriage we have, forget it. Let's respect each other for what we are and try to get along with more respect. "Equality" might be an illusory goal, since we've each got different equipment, inside and out, but respect and compassion are eternal.

9. Reverence. We're so busy chasing the holy dollar we've forgotten what it is to love life. Ancient monks in secluded monasteries saw intense concentration on tasks and appreciation of life as a form of prayer. Maybe this kind of soul stillness and inner beauty is missing in our lives, and we need to bring it back.

10. Open-mindedness. "Tolerance" implies not liking something, but putting up with it. Instead, we should try to understand that we each have different paths, and there is no ordained single route to glory. There are some things that are a good idea for everyone, but you have to do it for yourself. Be open-minded in the original meaning -- we know the goal, but there's more than one way to get there.

This message brought to you by AAAWL:
http://www.corrupt.org/

mmm some good points there indeed.

The one that definately poked out at me was the first one about envy and about trying to end the never ending search for the all mighty dollar.

While in an ideal world, a perfect utopia if you will, this could quite possibly occur. Do we really think that the world could operate without the incentive of money, and the possibility of more money for the harder and longer you work? I dont think it can.
 
"Nature is red in tooth and claw". This is a rule that no living creature, even mankind, can ever escape. Degrees of peace are possible. Some people are more able to live peacefully than others. Racial seperation is essential to any hope of peace, as war is competition and competition comes from feeling that some people with conflicting interests to yourself or your biological group are after your resources - or you need their resources. These feelings can no more be got rid of than feelings of primary loyalty to your nearest kin. Some people may lack this instinct, but lack of this instinct will kill such a person too, because others have it very strongly indeed and will strive to increase their security at the other person's expense.

Imagine sitting in a nice meadow on a lovely sunny day, relaxing. You are feeling at peace with the world, and yet in amongst the grass there is a ruthless struggle for survival going on with all the insects, mammals, plants, microscopic organisms, etc. competing with eachother , killing and eating eachother.

Infoterror has correctly identified many of the requisites for a peaceful society. Only select people would ever possess the characteristics necessary.
 
mmm some good points there indeed.

The one that definately poked out at me was the first one about envy and about trying to end the never ending search for the all mighty dollar.

While in an ideal world, a perfect utopia if you will, this could quite possibly occur. Do we really think that the world could operate without the incentive of money, and the possibility of more money for the harder and longer you work? I dont think it can.

Of course it could! For most of human existance egalitarian socities were the norm. In fact it still is in many hunter-gatherer communties today in spite of capitalistic pressures to give up their ways of life. And this is real egalitarianism, not some communist pseudo-egalitarianism. I think we need to recognize 1) that people striving for more money is neccasary to keep our economy alive, we can live just fine without it 2) the lifestyles that would mostly be destructed by an economic collapse would be those first world cultures 3) that our image of nature as nasty and violent is more of a projection then reality. Yes there is violence in nature, but there is also a lot of symiboisis and harmonious interaction. Capitalist culture is focused on competition and thus we tend to ignore these elements of nature. Compare this with the more balanced image of nature those cultures which live close to the land and don't believe it's their property.

Oh and to add to infoterrors list (which I am generally in agreement with), we should eliminate one of the core problems of our culture's suicidal state, namley the absurd idea that people can own land.
 
Norsemaiden said:
Imagine sitting in a nice meadow on a lovely sunny day, relaxing. You are feeling at peace with the world, and yet in amongst the grass there is a ruthless struggle for survival going on with all the insects, mammals, plants, microscopic organisms, etc. competing with eachother , killing and eating eachother.

Yes, but there is a distinct difference between all the insects, mammals, plants and us…

That difference being… Reason, a massively powerful tool of our minds, capable of looking beyond instinct to a point of enlightenment inaccessible by any other organism on this planet.

Only when this gift of evolution is abandoned will war continue.

comments (and attitudes) like these disturb me. “
Xorv said:
Ok this is just rediculous. I'm not even gonna read it. PEACE IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. The hippies tried to prove us wrong in the 60's but they ended up in their own filth. You can fix society, you can end the politics and the greed, but their is always going to be evil.....always.
”

denial of everything that separates us from other animals is what will inevitably lead to war.

Unfortunately, it seems like Americans everywhere have been corrupted by advocates of war within their own political and religious leaders.

when will people realize that war is not the answer!
WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Good article.

I disagree with 4. though. Isolating racial/cultural groups breeds misunderstanding, which in turn breeds fear and hatred; It's impossible to understand something you aren't intimately familiar with. It's also harmful to the free flow of ideas and encourages cultural stagnation. On the contrary, I think we need to break down the barriers of "American", "Muslim", "Chinese dude".

I also think that true balance, true happiness is different from peace. Destruction and creation are both parts of the natural order. Granted, modern society has gone much too far in the direction of violence, agression, and greed, but you need to burn down the old before you can build the new.

Lastly, the end of large-scale organized religion is necessary for peace. It's fine to read the bible, it's fine to accept the bible as a creed, it's fine to discuss the meaning of a passage with others. It's not fine to have your beliefs dictated to you by a church, especially a church with political and economic interests
 
By Design said:
Yes, but there is a distinct difference between all the insects, mammals, plants and us…

That difference being… Reason, a massively powerful tool of our minds, capable of looking beyond instinct to a point of enlightenment inaccessible by any other organism on this planet.

Only when this gift of evolution is abandoned will war continue.

comments (and attitudes) like these disturb me. “”

denial of everything that separates us from other animals is what will inevitably lead to war.

Unfortunately, it seems like Americans everywhere have been corrupted by advocates of war within their own political and religious leaders.

when will people realize that war is not the answer!
WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!


war isn't the only thing. Human beings are what they are. or what we are. To have peace in the world is to have no murder, rape, greed, hate, or of course...war. The suffering will always be here. The pain will never go away. The only peace in this life is death. Since the dawn of man.....there has never been peace. What makes you think it is ever going to change?

By the way...we are different from the other living creatures that prowl this rock. Not just in a biological sense. Do you think a spider worries about money? or a giraffe thinks about nuclear assault?
 
Ashen_Mirth said:
^Seconded.
But you'll never get rid of envy though.
It applies to so much more than just money.
Practically anything can be envied..

I agree with this and several other points....sure we should strive for peace and a utopian society...but I don't see that happening at all in my lifetime.
 
In the 1960s the movement for egalitarianism, peace and the brotherhood of man was in fashion and it has been pushed and pushed in all the decades since. Anti-racism and multiculturalism have been enforced by law and by the new Western culture (in all arts and media) during all those decades. If it was going to work, we would all be living in racial harmony right now, nearly 50 years later and with many millions more immigrants from different races, and yet we seem to be FURTHER away from that dubious goal. The US, for example has become a centrifuge rather than a melting pot.* There is more racial tension now throughout the world than ever in the past, when nations were more homogenous. The multiracial experiment has failed. It is amazing that some people still think it is the way to go! It is inevitably heading towards civil war in many countries as the different ethnicities strive for their own space and own agenda. The very thing that so many people think brings world harmony is infact the very thing that throws us into a dark age of brutality. I disagree that humans have reason. If they had reason they wouldn't cock things up so horrifically.

*Today America has become a vast conglomerate of conflicting pressure groups that have no common goal, objective, interest or anything else. The US is divided into hundreds of divisive power groups all at war with eachother. The US is divided racially into every base element found on the face of the Earth. The American Indians today have a lot more political clout than they had 200 years ago when the White American numbers were far smaller and the Indians were far more numerous. The US is divided by hundreds of religions, Mormon, Catholicism directed from Rome, and above all Judaism - the tribe that rules the country. Also divided by class warfare, homosexuals, etc. Each one has a power group fighting for its own seperate interest. The US is the most heterogeneous and most fragmented nation on Earth.

Such a nation cannot be governed for long, nor can it exist for long. When the French gifted America with the Statue of Liberty which said "Give me...the wretched refuse of your teeming shore," America swallowed a philosophy that was as deadly as any of the refuse itself.
 
Norsemaiden said:
*Today America has become a vast conglomerate of conflicting pressure groups that have no common goal, objective, interest or anything else. The US is divided into hundreds of divisive power groups all at war with eachother.

YES!!!
 
Do you not think that if you allow people to take drugs and drink excessively, then there will be problems? You have a kid who needs money for his drugs, so he mugs someone and kills them. The family of the victim (the dead one, not the addicted one) want revenge, so they find the kid and kill him. The family members involved go to prison, because, after all, they did just kill someone. And then there's a huge outcry, why should those who sought justice be imprisoned for fulfilling a human instinct? That isn't justice, and without justice you cannot have peace.

The very fact that people disagree with you seems to illustrate that peace is a bit impossible, especially as they get fired up over your opinion. If your opinion was turned into actions and law, maybe people would die because they didn't agree, and because they felt they were having their freedoms and rights oppressed by things they didn't agree with.

Also, how many open-minded people do you know?