How to mix Strings?

[symphonicmind]

I have problem at mixing Ensemble Strings or Tremolo Strings (>40 pieces), especially Large-Strings (it's about 60-70 pieces) (I use EWQL silver and HyperSonic for strings section). How to make it less muddy, more define but still keep its thickness enough?
And I'm very glad to hear any other tips.
Thank you.

 

[-Noodles-]

Have you been using reference materials??

I've just started to use some strings (namely, cellos) - but nothing on that scale!!

 

[-Noodles-]

I was asking what other classical / string-based music you've been listening to for ideas..

 

[symphonicmind]

I really like the strings ensemble sound and the Choir parts in the last Symphony X's album (Paradise Lost) as well as the Strings Ensemble from Circus Maximus 's 1st album - The 1st Chapter (especially, the 3rd track - Glory of the Empire). Mixing Symphonic Orchestra Instruments is still very foggy sky with me +_+ Hope you will help me get into it. Thank you.

 

[grywolf627]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, and without hearing what you're actually trying to do...my first thought is you're going waaaay too huge. 60-70 pieces for a string section? A real world orchestra won't have that many strings. And that string part in Glory of the Empire doesn't have nearly that many string parts. But, maybe I'm misunderstanding you, and I've only tried a few little symphonic pieces myself, so I'm no expert at this either.

 

[Ihsahn1981]

I hear the Fairchild (UAD or Waves) is good for strings.
I have the UAD version, but I havent tried it on strings myself.
Its truly amazing on other acoustic instruments though. Love it!

 

[scorpio01169]

the first thing i would tell you is....make sure you're playing the instruments in their proper keyszones, that is violins on a keyboard sound more natural in certain zones of the keyboard and cellos on other parts. do each instrument on different tracks to eq them better and you can automate the mix.

 

[Kadmium]

What other instruments are playing with the strings? Guitars, bass, drums, etc? I find that, in general, I don't really need to do anything to EWQLSO, whereas no amount of processing will make the Hypersonic strings useable.

 

[grywolf627]

What other instruments are playing with the strings? Guitars, bass, drums, etc? I find that, in general, I don't really need to do anything to EWQLSO, whereas no amount of processing will make the Hypersonic strings useable.

Which may point to another area causing muddiness. All the strings (and other instruments) in WEQLSO are all part of the same orchestra, sampled in position, in the same music hall. They should already sound great together and not need much processing. But, adding more strings from a different sample set, that were recorded in a different place with different mics, etc...this could lead to some muddiness.

 

[Zack Uidl]

For EWQLSO I don't really do too much. I apply a little EQ to the entire orchestra arrangement and also apply Altiverb to the entire orchestra arrangement.

I will add a little more EQ when mixed with guitars, bass and drums, but not too much really.

 

[Black neon bob]

Sounds like WAY too much strings dude.. you would have them to pan correctly, and let one string play a different note, octave to seperate one from the other... could you post a clip?

 

[Splat88]

If there's a guy who knows how to mix keys and strings, its Bob. Listen to the man.

 

[Black neon bob]

If there's a guy who knows how to mix keys and strings, its Bob. Listen to the man.

Haha.. cheers dude, but even i don't do THAT much to get the strings sound right you know?
The best thing about modern plugins is that most of the time, they allready sound great.. best thing to do is replace the sometimes cheap sounding reverbs and go with that.. EQ a little maybe, and then mix it in right.
That's the easy part, then you have conflicting strings and synths fighting for room sometimes, that's the real challenge.. and i dont think anyone could beat the challenge with 60-70 pieces of strings.

 

[Metaltastic]

I'd just like to point out that in the "Ads by google" section at the top of this page, one of the entries is "Men's G Strings"

 

[Zack Uidl]

hahahahaha. that is hilarious.

 

[symphonicmind]

thank you for all your replies. I just wanna focus on Strings Ensemble section in Progressive Metal mixing (some Symphony X and Circus Maximus's stuff). I didn't have much knowledge about orchestra, so when I look into Large-Strings Ensemble group of EWQT, I saw the patch: 70 Piece QLEG Slow. So, I thought that the ensemble strings includes about 60-70 pieces +_+ Sorry for my lack of knowledge.
This is my clip which is made about 1 year ago (when I almost know nothing about mixing :| ). I use EWQT - 70 Piece QLEG Slow for strings section in this song.
http://www.yousendit.com/download/Y2orb3BPdzh3NUt4dnc9PQ
Yeah, you show me that a little EQ and Reverb used to mix strings section. A guy suggest me about FairChild plugin, I 've just searched for that Plugin in Google and I was also nearly fainted when I look at the Price - 800$ for Native Plugin T_T Oh my god!!! But I believe some cheaper plugins with right settings could do the same thing +_+
Which EQ settings should I applied for this kind of Strings Ensemble sound? and Does it really need a compressor? In my old mix above, I use a little HP filter at 100, cut with quite wide band about 3 db at 500hz and boost a little at high freqs.

 

[Kadmium]

You won't really need a compressor for EWQLSO. A little subtle EQ might help, but if I were you, I'd ditch the "string ensemble" idea and add just use a cello section and a violin section.

 

[symphonicmind]

thank you. It means that I will have to split my strings sections into 2 parts: 1 cellos and 1 Violins? Please suggest me some EQ tips (ex: cut/boost at particular freq?) I've searched for those tips in Google but I found nothing. hic

 

[sunglasses]

Well, as you said working at the EQ of your sounds is the main important thing... But you will have to work on the EQ within the all mix (with other instruments) in order to obtain a good result.

Typically when I am mixing an homogeneous sound of strings in my songs, I boost somewhere between 3-5kHz (to give more "clarity") and I cut low frequences (0-350Hz to avoid covering the bass) & very high frequences (let's say beyond 10kHz). But of course it will depend on lots of parameters: sound of original samples, other instruments in the mix...

You can listen to my song "Acid Rain" on my page, I put some strings in the background...

 

[TheWinterSnow]

if your going to run huge orchestrations, you have to divide each section, a bass patch, cello, violins violas etc and keep them completely separate, each individual part separated by its instrumentation and a separate track in your DAW sounds like a lot of work yes but if you are going big you can't cut corners. You have to separate everything to keep them from blurring together. I usually bus this into a master track to separate from the rest of the band (which i also bus other things in the entire mix)

keep eq to a minimum, i actually highly recommend bringing up your highs a fair amount so that you can really hear the fuzz of the strings, this will bring up your attack. upper mids almost seem to make the tone muddy (even more so than bass) Use only enough reverb so that you have a diffused relase that is long but is light. set the release of the actual string patch to about one second and leave the reverb to about 8 seconds, roll off most of the bass in the reverb and then bring the wet signal into the dry mix until you can just begin to hear the reverb, as soon as you hear it, that's enough, anymore is overkill.

and in order to make sure everything fits, you have to mix each individual part to the entire mix (guitars and drums etc.) Judge the final mix and make your orchestral adjustments there.

Thing is that with heavy guitars and drums or more overall saturation, the clarity of the orchestra (as well as the other instrumentation will loose clarity, just the nature of the beast).

Other than that it take experience, you have to play around and see what works, my main hints are to separate everything and keep post processing to a minimum, no compression, small eq, small reverb.