How Underground Does One Have to Be?

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speed

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I am personally getting tired of all the showboating around here. Whenever anyone mentions a genre, we see lists upon lists of very obscure bands. I rarely see anyone make any explanation why such an obscure band is any better or more interesting than an already obscure band ( to most of the world) such as Entombed, At the Gates, or Emperor etc etc.

When I do actually hear explanations, I have to admit I find a very good band such as The Chasm, or Arcane Sun etc. Yet still, I am really getting tired of people using their knowledge of some band that cant sell over 500 copies of their cd, as reason why they are more "metal" and knowledgable than everyone else. You know there is a reason why everyone knows In Flames, At the Gates, Death etc etc. Its becuase they are damn good at what they do, and have reached and influenced the whole of a not very big underground metal loving community.
 
Well, the explanation for (and specific to) black metal would be because it's such an ideologically driven genre. It promotes values such as nihilism, individualism, anarchism, paganism, etc. The main one I think is individualism, and from here most others follow. For example, social structures, which anarchism denounces, and religion, which paganism denounces, seek to control the individual. Nihilism would be the total denial of other people and all that they claim to be truth.

To express this ideology, BM often features raw, minimalistic production, sombre themes, dark and ominous atmospheres, harsh and aggressive distortions/sounds/riffs, and disturbing (yet meaningful) lyrics, all producing quite a unique, evil-sounding end product. A consequence of this is that the music won't appeal to the general public. This isn't a problem, though, since true BM bands don't care how many records they sell so much as how good, ideologically speaking, their music is; BM ideology finds no merit in the factors, such as wealth and fame, that make most bands strive to sell many albums, let alone even approve of the global structure through which these things would be attained.

It's fair to say that the average person isn't a nihilist, anarchist, or satanist. The average person, therefore, won't enjoy BM since BM is a musical extension of ideologies to which they don't subscribe. The opposite is also very often, although not always, true. If the general public does enjoy a BM band, that band is likely not reflecting BM ideologies in their music. In other words, they're sacrificing integrity in order to cator to the masses and sell more albums.

Thus, if a BM band is very popular, it's a good, although not definite sign (since there are exceptions to every rule) that they aren't a "true" BM band, that they aren't accurately reflecting the ideologies behind BM in their music. Of course, many people simply jump on the BM band wagon and put down popular bands in an uneducated attempt to define themselves as BMers. In other words, although the root of the criticism against popular bands is valid, it's highly exagerated by many people.
 
I accept your apology worm infested, you have finally come to terms with your sin of citing obscure bands without any reason other than to show how smart and "metal" you are.
 
Good job Pheonix, it's nice to see someone else who understands the BM idealogy. (although I really don't think anarchy plays a big role, if any role at all, in the BM idealogy)
 
I'm assuming its for the obvious reason that most of us already know the well known bands (imagine that), so unless a total newcommer is asking for some bands from genre X recomending the well known bands is rather pointless...
 
I agree with crimsonfloyd.

Most of us know the upper echelons of the underground scene, so the obscure bands are the ones that will be recommended. I don't want to be recommended a slew of bands I can find with ease on Amazon.com(a surprising number). I want bands that can barely afford webspace, and are bimming with undiscovered talent and ingenuity.

Until a year or so ago, In Flames were still pretty underground. Here at UM, underground means a completely different thing than on an MTV bb.
 
speed said:
I am personally getting tired of all the showboating around here. Whenever anyone mentions a genre, we see lists upon lists of very obscure bands. I rarely see anyone make any explanation why such an obscure band is any better or more interesting than an already obscure band ( to most of the world) such as Entombed, At the Gates, or Emperor etc etc.

When I do actually hear explanations, I have to admit I find a very good band such as The Chasm, or Arcane Sun etc. Yet still, I am really getting tired of people using their knowledge of some band that cant sell over 500 copies of their cd, as reason why they are more "metal" and knowledgable than everyone else. You know there is a reason why everyone knows In Flames, At the Gates, Death etc etc. Its becuase they are damn good at what they do, and have reached and influenced the whole of a not very big underground metal loving community.
Click to expand...

Its not becuase theyre damn good but because it sells damn good! Everyone knows those pop and rap fucks... are they damn good? These days big labels like Nuclear Blast try to shove shit through our throats... like Soilwork, in flames, deathstars, crystall ball whatever.... then again there are bands that are known because theyre damn good like Death and At the gates, Morbid Angel and so on........

And another thing is that when you were into metal a long time, you (I think so at least) get more underground becuase at one point you know all those known band or you lost interest...

Why do bands have to be known? Because some gothics in Nuclear Blast like it and push it high as the next best thing?
Things have been going wrong when one day Dimmu Borgir plays over Motörhead... o_O
 
It can get a bit annoying when you find someone raving about these really obscure bands and you're sat there thinking, WHERE THE FUCK DID THEY GET THESE ALBUMS!? THEY'RE NOWHERE!! but saying that, its a good feeling when you discover a really underground band because it means you can be elitest about it :lol: nah, im not elitest, im a n00b compared to quite a few people on here. Nicely said though crimsonfloyd and anonymousnick
 
Maybe also because we want those smaller bands to get recognition? Metal's strength is built on a healthy underground, something that is NOT helped if someone says, say, "recommend me some black metal" and gets 25 replies all telling him to listen to Burzum, Mayhem and Emperor. A true elitist wouldn't tell you what bands he's listening to. "Sorry, it's not for the likes of you!"
 
I recommend obscure bands, because the person who asked for recommendations probably has heard of the more well known bands. I am not elitist. As is the case with the more well known bands, some obscure bands are great and some of them suck.
 
Lol well when people name like 40 obscure bands in a row. A couple things come to mind.

A) Where the hell did you discover this band.
B) How in the world are you purchasing their album (I'm having a tough ass time finding novembrine waltz for sale. So I dont know how you guys find a band like piglicking chickenkillers or (insert tr00 band name here)
C) If your 15 yr old and such. How the hell are you affording all these album?!? When I was that age I'd be lucky to have a dollar to buy a bag of cornnuts!
 
Listening to bands simply because they're underground is gay.
Bands who appeal to the mainstream are often gay, because the masses are gay.
Bands who are more thought-provoking tend not to appeal to the gay masses, and are therefore obscure. Therefore virtually all the non-gay bands are obscure.
People who try to be 'metal' are gay.
In Flames were always gay.
 
I like really underground stuff,more mainstream metal and even some regular mainstream artists. If I like something I like something I can't stand people that won't listen a band because they sold more than 100 cds that is stupid. Basing music on anything else besides music is stupid. What bugs me is the underground music fans that think they are better than other metal fans because they can name 20 really obscure BM artists that can't even tie there shoes and have no talent or music understanding at all and then think they are correct. Or the one's that go that is not BM this is,etc.... grow up how old are you 12 you don't decide Genre's so stop acting like a baby. Are you into underground because you like it or do you want to draw attention or show people how big of a dictionary you are. No one gives a shit so cut it out already.
 
Guardian we agree on something. I am more pissed off at people listing obscure bands just because they are obscure. If i do ever find one of these bands, they usually suck.
 
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