how would you mic-up...

KHE

KHE

Member
Mar 5, 2009
606
3
18
switzerland
... these overheads / cymbals?

i'm starting a new project next week. this is the drummers kit. a gorgeous tama starclassic bubinga. but a very odd cymbal setup.

how would you approach this drumkit?

i'd say spot-mic the cymbals in 3-4 groups with SDCs and try to speard them as good as possible in the stereofield without sounding phasy
+ a mono room mic for glueing the kit. but this way a radical hi-pass is needed to remove lots of the toms/snare to avoid misplacement in the
stereo-filed. usualy, my toms/snare-sounds rely lot on the overhead-sound, this would not be posiible this way.

i'm curious to hear your opinions!

thanks, markus



BoozKit.jpg
 
I know this sounds crazy, but I'd try to get him to consider moving a few of those cymbals to the other side of the kit.

My bands drummer has sort of a similar set up where he's got more cymbals on one side of the kit and this had me thinking way too much about how I was going to mic the OH's and not have a lop-sided sounding mix, though his setup wasn't as extreme as this kit above.
 
Well I'm sure some more experienced dudes will chime in. It makes me cringe just looking at that picture though. If you drew a center line through the kick and snare, 90% of the cymbals would be on the left side of the kit. Interested to see what others would do here. But I'd do what you said; spot mic and try to get a nice spread without killing it.
 
probably an important note:

the kick will be recorded only with a trigger-module, so no kick-sound in the overheads & rooms! (pearl tru trac kick, this thing rocks!!)
 
yeah i know, but i need a acceptable solution. it won't be perfect, but we can make it work for sure! the main thing that bothers me the most is that there is no seperation between ride & hi-hat...
 
I'd say that you have a "working" plan already written down on the OP. Nothing else to do besides that IMO.
 
I would probably use a normal pair of overheads, ignoring the mess near the Hi-hat and add another kind of overhead mic specifically for that mess. Then I would put some thumbtacks on his seat too and kick him in the lower legs.
 
Seriously, is there a reason why they are setup that way? I can't imagine how that would be a comfortable setup for a right-handed drummer.
 
Nolly said:
Seriously, is there a reason why they are setup that way? I can't imagine how that would be a comfortable setup for a right-handed drummer.
Click to expand...

Lol, no doubt. I looked at this picture for awhile trying to understand what the point of this setup could possibly be..... But to try to do my best to answer the question. If he honestly won't realistically think about drums from a stereo field point of view , then he is just stubborn. If I had to do it I guess I would put up a mono overhead mic, not that I'd be thrilled with that, but more than 2 overheads never seemed to work out for me. And I don't see a logical position for a spaced pair or xy position.
 
bryan_kilco said:
Well I'm sure some more experienced dudes will chime in. It makes me cringe just looking at that picture though. If you drew a center line through the kick and snare, 90% of the cymbals would be on the left side of the kit. Interested to see what others would do here. But I'd do what you said; spot mic and try to get a nice spread without killing it.
Click to expand...

The drummer in my old band (who is a fucking beast) plays with the ride and HH on the same side. obviously this fucks up the entire stereo field leaving one side completely in the dark while the other side gets all the high-end if mic'd like a normal kit.

Back than I've set the OHs so that one is above almost where the hi-tom is and the other one is almost 90 degrees to the left of the drummer, though in hindsight i think close-micing would have been the way to go.

Close mic, pan some of those cymbals to the other side in the mix to balance the high-end and don't look back.

p.s.
I completely forgot: the reason why i quoted bryan_kilco was that at first i managed to get him to try and play with the ride in it's usual position.
Those were the 5 happiest minutes of that session.
 
This is not an engineering issue; it is a client issue.

I would sit down with the whole band and discuss this. Explain to them how you need balance across the entirety of the stereo field to give a sense of space and depth, otherwise they are compromising the quality of their product.

If they have demos, work with them and break down how many times each cymbal is used and if it's even necessary. Start cutting out cymbals that are only hit a few times unless they really have some sort of positive impact on the song. If that's the case, only use it on that one song. Try to reduce the amount of cymbals in general and have them spread more across the kit for balance.
 
Sloan said:
This is not an engineering issue; it is a client issue.

I would sit down with the whole band and discuss this. Explain to them how you need balance across the entirety of the stereo field to give a sense of space and depth, otherwise they are compromising the quality of their product.

If they have demos, work with them and break down how many times each cymbal is used and if it's even necessary. Start cutting out cymbals that are only hit a few times unless they really have some sort of positive impact on the song. If that's the case, only use it on that one song. Try to reduce the amount of cymbals in general and have them spread more across the kit for balance.
Click to expand...

This or reject the work. I wouldn't put my name on something that could give me a bad engineer reputation.
 
@nolly
he plays all his cymbals on the left with his left hand, not crossed with the right like a usual drummer would. don't ask me why, i guess he is a self-taught drummer (plays very good!)

@studdy
some kind of mono overhead mic will be my "safty-net", in case the spot-micing does not work properly in the mix.

@sloan
i allready had a meeting with the band. they are aware of the problems of this setup, but thats just the way it is. they are used to a left-dominated oh-mix from thier demos and previous records.

@arthurD
ok and then tell my (imaginary) family: sorry, no food this month, drummer had an awkward cymbal-setup... ¯\(°_o)/¯
honsetly, this is not a dealbreaker. i know i can get it work to a level where it does not harm my reputation.


my fear with lots of spot-micing are the phase-problems... another idea:
xy-pair over the drummers leftside. not too high up, pointing away from the snare. spot-mic ride and the cymbal on the right side. experiment with panning. won't be very wide, but better than mono or overly phasy spot-mics... radical highpass to remove the shells. use a dark mono room for the shells glue.
 
That kit makes absolutely no sense and if you really want to take on that project, I would mic overheads as normal and the the rest of the kit normal. any other way, you're gonna have some issues with the stereo field. But first I would ask the drummer what the fuck is that set up about.
 
Are people serious suggesting turning down a recording project because the drummer plays ride on the left :-O
This is the way he plays. So be it.
Holding band meetings etc and trying to get him to change the way he plays will loose you the project.
Forget about spot micing and trying to change the pan. It won't work.
Treat the overheads as a single stereo source rather than individual cymbals.
I would go with ORTF over the snare and pan them 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock.
Try and get him to use the crash on his right as much as possible and suggest he "rides" that crash in place of the ride for some songs (choruses)
Once you get to the mix it will be fine.
Maybe not as wide as a hard panned stereo pair but you will have strong centre energy for the kit.
 
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