I am in need of advice.

[Έρεβος]

I'd like to get some advice from some of the members of this forum, in particular: Justin S., Scourge of God, Seditious, Speed, infoterror, Norsemaiden, Blowtus, and OldScratch. Though of course advice from all is welcome.


Anyway, I am 17, as most of ye I'm sure know. Currently I am attending a local university for a couple courses, and homeschooling myself (basically). I'll most probably get my diploma around the end of this year, or beginning of next, unless I decide for some reason to extend that. Basically, I am split on what to do afterwards, or even before - confused. For all my life until just the last year I've been dead set on college, wishing to get a PhD, or more, from a top college in the US or UK; but, now I am not sure at all.


Hmm, a bit of background... Not being "vain," I've always been an extremely intelligent student; all my teachers (when I did go to public school) have been dead positive I would attend a top college easily, and then go on to be some top-end genius mathematician, historian, or whatever (depending on the class). I was good at basically "everything," with no truly weak or stronger subjects, though doing better in certain areas depending on current motivations. Even my art teachers found me gifted, though I hated the structured school atmosphere they draped over "art."

I learned some fundamental things in elementary school, but not much at all. I knew how to read when the rest of the class was learning their letters, etc. This forced me to do the great majority of my learning on my own, at home. I've read a great deal from a quite young age, not caring as much for the usual child activities, and this is where I learned most everything, except for the things I learned from experience (my strict religious upbringing, parent's divorce, sister's drug problems, etc.) Even the "gifted" class I was put in taught me little; just more big words really, and specific facts.

Due to it's fundamental uselessness to me, I grew to rather detest school by the time I was in middle school (7th year - 9th [of 13]). My grades slipped from the nearly perfect scores I got in elementary school, to "very good," though not exceptional. I still got exceptional grades in some classes, though, and these were due to enjoying the teachers, teachers that were capable of providing me with something to truly learn. The Middle School "gifted and talented" program was the greatest in this respect. The teacher, Mr. Glen, introduced me (us) to mythology, psychology, some philosophy, theoretical physics, etc., things I found extremely interesting. I easily out-did everyone in the class for the first two years, as these were open-ended classes about truly learning rather than "being told facts," something I truly had motivation to do. The two years of that class I learned probably 10x as much as all the other classes combined from all my public schooling.

Sadly, the public school system required Mr. Glen to make the class more "educational" (hahaha..), meaning bullshit structure, which I couldn't stand. I got a B the first quarter and had to drop the class (A or A+ is required to be maintained). My grades in my other classes continued to drop. I had less and less motivation the higher the grade I was in, as it became more and more centralized, more structured, more indoctrinating crap. I had maybe two teachers the next 3 (9th to 11th) years that were good, the rest were utterly horrid. All the teachers still knew me as exceedingly intelligent, as I aced all the tests without studying or trying, and was able to easily help the other students, never needing help on anything myself; but they were always taking me aside and saying how important it was for me to get perfect grades, blah blah blah.

During this period (9th to 11th grade), I learned literally nothing from the school curriculum, aside from a bit of math (more often the math teachers learned from me). Everything I really learned was from personal studying & reading, which I did an great deal of. (My "social life" completely died beyond my family and a couple older intelligent friends at this time.) Then I started homeschooling and attending university, as I am now. Over the past year I've studied a great deal of philosophy & history, and found those subjects to be of greatest interest to me. Nietzsche, I'm sure you most know, is easily by favorite philosopher. The past half year I've learned a great deal from my online activities, as well, particularly this forum, and the sites anus.com and corrupt.org (though I don't fully agree with these).


That was extremely summarized obviously. And no, I'm not trying to flatter myself; such was more-so speaking from other's views. Well, I hope this makes sense. Anyway, I am beyond confused as to what I should do now. I've read so many accounts of lives, each of which is an "ok" alternative. One is vagrancy ... living without a single residency, moving around with no real job, etc., just living & experiencing life and the world. That really has seemed the greatest path for a while, and still does somewhat, though not as a real ending point, not at all, rather a way for me to figure out what it is I do wish to do, what I can do, what I should do, etc. - a experience to learn myself and the world. I think it is obvious I don't a shit about money, comfort, etc., the modern world is a load of bullshit. Most of ye know how I think from my posts. What I (think I) wish most is to firstly become the greatest individual I possibly can, physically (as long as it lasts), and foremost mentally (of course); and secondly to, when I know what it is that ... is worth (?) it, someone make the greatest "difference" the individual I am can make.

College is the other alternative. I'd study philosophy and history, if I do go. I could get into a rather good college without much difficulty. But, my experience with both public school, and current experience with university, along with what I know about the society these institutions are for, is rather strongly turning me away from it. I'm thinking the one's I wish advice from know all that I'm talking about in regards to college. "Cesspool of faggotry and Judaism," as Scourge of God put it. The only reasons I can see myself going is to maybe find other individuals at least somewhat like me, to learn through my own studies using the university resources, and maybe find a very few decently intellectually honest professors. The degree seems of little real use, just monetary bullshit.

Another alternative is getting a physical job, living in a small house, and making a quality niche of a life for myself separate from society.


But truly, I have little fucking clue. I don't really know enough to have a clue, why I do need advice; sadly, it is advice I'd be better off giving to my parents than them to me... They are incapable of teaching me anything, or advising me in something I didn't already understand, as they have been since I was in grade school. So ... what is it that you think I could/should do? Or, just advice, as I know it is more-so the approach, the philosophy, then it is what you actually physically do with your body.

I suppose I'll edit this later, as it was written with little patience for revising or coherency. I believe I'm missing a lot of the core of what I wished to say, as well ... but respond as you may, with whatever you may.

 

[Justin S.]

I certainly will respond to this later in the week (I am very busy at the moment).

 

[OldScratch]

^Ditto what Justin said. I am pressed for time right now and don't want to just dash something off...but I do want to add a few thoughts - particularly before you decide to start building a "Unabomber" shack in the mountains of Maine or some such!

 

[Έρεβος]

particularly before you decide to start building a "Unabomber" shack in the mountains of Maine or some such!

Good idea!

I didn't mean go off and live in the wood by separate from society, just live a life not immersed in it, while still physically "in it."

 

[Seditious]

I always felt the same way as you, that the school curriculum was for the mostpart like teaching you how to walk and then giving you lots of practice walking, day after fuckin' day, rather than training you to be an athlete. All the things I consider important intellectually (Beyond actually knowing how to touch-type and write and read and do basic math of daily life) were things I've learned only through my own curiousity.

You're quite lucky to have at least learned some psych/phil/etc in high school, our curriculum (anywhere in New Zealand as far as I know) in that respect is far inferior to the US or UK. Nietzsche though was my favourite philosopher at first too, hearing of him only years after leaving school : )

What should you do now? I don't know if that question ever comes out without accompaniment of strong exhale in the face of choosing a path when 360 degrees of possibility lay around you. There's the obvious point that no one else can tell you how (or even if) to live, so I'll just get right to my own perspective which is merely that, and is indeed a perspective rather than a program, suggesting a way of looking at things rather than which things to look at.

The easy answer is 'get a job', and in free time continue pursuing your interests. I think sadly for most people this is not merely a transition---a survival activity during indecision---but the course of the rest of their life. Unemployed myself, I'm amused by how apt 'free time' sounds to speak of the counterpart of one's life of wage slavery. But the life of 'I will maintain the status quo so long as I have economical sustainance', like that of an animal, changing environment based on survival resources, is not a bad one: any life in which you are happy is not a bad one. If someone is as happy raising one child as five, winning football games as conflicts in Iraq, then it doesn't matter how objectively worthy or difficult their struggles or accomplishments are. My brother had been homeless for about 3 or 4 years. He was probably happier in that time than I was during much of my life, well fed and sheltered (can't say much for my clothes though). Such freedom is a romantic idea. People will tell you of their dumpster diving and all the unique experiences of being a vagrant without a job (rather than one seeking employment) but such a path has it's troubles; drugs, malnourishment, fights, infections, etc. But every way of life has it's cost, and the important thing is your understanding of what a choice will cost you for taking it (the Economists call this 'the opportunity cost'---every choice you make comes at the price of all the other alternatives), and what risks a choice may further entail. So long as you can accept those---so long as the gain is more important to you than the preservation of what could be lost---then any ill that can be spoken of the choice is unimportant. As they say, "live your own life, for you will die your own death." The point of all that is simply to underscore the ideal of living by your own standard, rather than convention, but realizing that the life most satisfactory now might not be worth the cost in later years. Those later years seem to be the most important to intellectuals, and it would be tragic to lose so much in free-spiritedness that the wisdom of years will never be harvested.

It's a struggle for most people, sowing all the seeds they need if they hope for their dreams ever to take root in reality, to keep pouring so much effort in without reaping any returns, year after year. The desire is to break from it, do what is pleasant or easy or exciting or new... and trust that, though more slowly for not being nurtured, their potential will still be growing, rather than whithering away, there to come back to with new hope and will. If you feel that excellence is necessary for your eventual satisfaction with the life you've lived then that is the peak to which you must always look up to and head towards, denying the wholly obstructive but desirable alternatives in life, doing you best to at least indirectly make your way to the top where you haven't the discipline to charge straight ahead rather than taking a rest or an easier path. If the summit is for what you strive then though you will have your weaknesses as all humans, in ability and motivation, you need to keep in mind when you take shelter from a storm that you are merely taking shelter, that the storm will pass, and that you can bare most weather, and that this is not a place to stay, to accept as that which no higher than you will climb, but only a temporary refuge, and you must continue to dream of the peak rather than thinking of the easy lives of that blur of people unrecognisable in the distance of centuries in the quiet lands below. One of Buddha's ideas has been since phrased a hundred ways: you are drawn to that which you think about; where you let your attention linger you are drawn; what you think about is what you become; every thought contributes to the direction of your life, all expressing the importance of the self-control which is a positive attitude, a goal-directed mind-set, a focus on what is important as so judged by yourself. What stays with me most these days of Nietzsche is indeed his line relating to this exact matter, "To forget one's purpose is the commonest form of stupidity."

Unlike storms, some obstacles in life aren't to be waited out. However big an obstacle appears remember that you have your whole life to conquer it, and that turning back in face of it will never be as satisfying as dieing in the great struggle for what is most important to you. Understanding an obstacle usually provides a way through, so lacking ability to tackle a problem which you confront is just a time to study, to grow yourself bigger than that which impedes you. In reality, most obstacles are self-imposed, that is, unintelligence, boredom, frustration, emotion, tiredness... generally it is your inner troubles which hold you back. your own misunderstanding, your own apathy, your own hopelessness, your own lack of attention. Getting where you want to go is indeed for the most part a battle for excellence against the obstacles within we call vice.

Were we not in such liberal and prosperous countries perhaps such a focus on the individual as the determinant of personal excellence would be unwarranted, for the environment and the state may limit a person's possibilities far more than their own mind, but here I believe it is justified.

Most people, fortunate enough to have all our democratic and modern luxuries don't make radical changes to their life unless they're significantly dissatisfied with that life. This apathy which is a lack of direction is worse in my mind than the apathy of one's own ability to reach a goal in a direction already discovered. The former may be happier, living absent the despair of a meaningless life in contrast to a meaning imagined, but of course I can only mean 'worse to me', and if you are of similar mind you may agree for you too that would be the worse state.

Stuck in the dissatisfaction of wishing for better things, if we think our wishes so valuable as to be worth their burden, we must dismiss the Buddhist ideal of lessening desires and accepting what is, for the physical dissatisfaction of sexual arousal and the existential dissatisfaction of the worthless life will never be equally acceptable and suppressible for the goal of tranquility. If there is a peaceful life it is the inner peaceful life, where you go to sleep content and wake up driven to get your hands dirty and go to war, no matter how tiring the actual work is, or how hopeless the labor seems. One mind can touch a million lives so long as he endeavors to reach despite despair of having yet reached none, for it is not one-by-one and day-by-day gratification that one feels the significance of one's work.

Back from that tangent, always remember to do the hard things which make the pleasant more accessable. Exercise to be healthy and attractive. Acquire money, have enough to survive, enough to be content, enough to engage in social norms; remember that a job works for you, you are devoted not to the principle of a work ethic and amassing more money than you need to ensure what you need, which, like all means, drains the blood of life---time---and should not take away from your end, your purpose, any more than necessary. Cultivate virtue, be wise with who you trust and with what, be healthy, and generous and polite, all so that you may live a pleasant social life and have at least that to fall back on in tough times. And continue to read things you don't agree with so you can enjoy that inner urge to articulate what you believe, and thus come to a better understanding of what you believe, if not a superior belief itself. "if we know only our own side of the argument," Mill noted, "we know hardly even that!" And don't hesitate to read works you appreciated a first time as if a waste of time. You will find, in a second or third read some years later, you gleam wisdom from them which you had overlooked or contextualized differently, as it is a reflection of a different mind than first read it.

This amounts to saying follow your heart ('mind' if you prefer---'passion' either way) always. When you make a commitment do not feel committed to any particular behavior---commitment to a means rather than an ends is simply foolishness and amounts to the stubborn vanity of stick-to-it-iveness so as to not appear as if having wasted one's time---it is the stupidity Nietzsche reminds us of. Accept your mistakes and correct them, we're all born ignorant of everything and none of us learn our way on the first try.


edit: scores of typos

 

[Russell]

My two cents for you is that if you go to a decent university you have a lot of freedom to teach yourself. It may, of course, be different in your subject, but I study a science at a decent UK university, and while we have more lectures than humanities courses do there is still a lot of freedom, even a requirement, that most of our learning is done from reading. So I can't help you much with your choices, but at least you should not be afraid - as long as you choose a challenging course - that college will be like high school, as it wont.

Also if this turned out to be your choice you'd have to decide between the UK and the US, which is, in itself, not the easiest decision, but an important one, as the university systems are quite different. Good luck with your decision making. It my seem like a pain, but to have such a choice you are quite fortunate, and this should an exciting time

 

[Blowtus]

Great post Seditious. Can I ask how successful you are at applying such notions to your own life? The conflict between the intellect, (knowing what we 'should' do) and the 'instinct' (short term desire / craving) is something I'm pretty interested in

The original post is a fairly fundamental question of course - one so difficult that some / most refrain from thinking or acting on it to any significant degree. 6 months ago I found myself tiring of my 'normality', or at least the appearance of such, and started properly questioning along these lines. For the last month or two my small business has picked up dramatically, and I have accepted the work - slipping easily into much more 'normal' thought / action patterns. The comfort and security of such a 'normal' path is so easy to accept... as someone who has modest contentment already, my inner struggle is primarily that of wondering whether mere contentment is really such a worthwhile thing, contradictory as it may sound.

 

[Seditious]

Great post Seditious. Can I ask how successful you are at applying such notions to your own life? The conflict between the intellect, (knowing what we 'should' do) and the 'instinct' (short term desire / craving) is something I'm pretty interested in .

thanks.
I have very little self-discipline, I'm not proud of that, and who knows just how much it has cost me, but still I feel I know what works for me and what will be valuable to improve on. shame I'm not sick, I'd be flippin' on some Sartrean anguish workin' like Nietzsche or Burgess.

as someone who has modest contentment already, my inner struggle is primarily that of wondering whether mere contentment is really such a worthwhile thing, contradictory as it may sound.

yea, I think everyone has that existential crisis once they have a comfortable life and the time to reflect on one's life.

Some religious folk look at the correlation between suicide and wealth and want to say 'people who think money is all that matters realize their life is empty and kill themselves', but it seems to me it's just that people struggling merely to survive have no hopes of anything important in their life or not even the time for such reflection, or in such hopelessness of this life buy in to the religious promise of reward for their pointless barely enjoyable struggle.

 

[JColtrane]

First, I'll start with a question; then, a word of advice.

Do you know what you want to do after college? Write? Teach? In other words, what's the goal for your education?

If you really enjoy Nietzsche and can get into a number of universities, this is what I would suggest (it is what I am doing w/ Kierkegaard): aquaint yourself with the current secondary literature on Nietzsche, see which writer(s) you like, and try to get into school there. IMO, pretty much the best school for Philosophy is Notre Dame (Plantiga and MacIntyre), but I think you should go wherever you think the best Nietzsche scholars are.

 

[speed]

Remember, old Oscar Wilde: the best advice, is advice not taken.

I was unaware you are only 17 years old. You're obviously extremely intelligent. I think you will make the right choice in whatever you decide. And if not, you will learn from your mistakes. Do what makes you happy and content. Follow your soul. Sorry if this sounds lame, but you're the only person who totally understands you, who is you; so any decision must be your own.

That being said, I also commend you for opening up your soul, and posting such a thing on this site.

 

[Έρεβος]

Seditious: Thanks. That was an excellent reply, and pretty much the type of reply I was looking for.

Russell: Something I've been greatly considering, though now I just can't see why being directed by college curriculum would be any better than how I learn now.

JColtrane: If I go to college... Maybe both (teaching and writing), or one, maybe neither. My goal for education is education, and truly the degree means nothing to me, just the experience.

speed: True, though not all lessons should be learned through mistakes. Many things are important to have advice from those more experienced, in this case just so I know more of the paths, and can better make my own choice. Advice should never be something to make the choice for you, yes.

 

[Justin S.]

I advise you to stop using that smaller font...

 

[speed]

speed: True, though not all lessons should be learned through mistakes. Many things are important to have advice from those more experienced, in this case just so I know more of the paths, and can better make my own choice. Advice should never be something to make the choice for you, yes.

I think the regulars have all offerred excellent advice.

Mistakes are inevitable and human, and one learns much from them. I am merely saying that even if you dont choose well, you will learn and grow from the experience.

I think it important to seek wise counsel, to read the greats in philosophy and lit; but even so, it is your life, and no amount of wisdom and advice can make you happy and content.

 

[Έρεβος]

I advise you to stop using that smaller font...

But ... it's perdier.

 

[Justin S.]

But... I'm mod.

 

[Έρεβος]

But... I'm mod.

<3

 

[Justin S.]

(back to the more serious matter at hand...)

 

[JoeVice]

good post seditious


i find it commendable that your primary goal is to become a good individual. its something that i have always been half-assedly concerned with, and its biting me today.

follow your heart. don't push yourself to grow up. you probably already know the general nature of the path you would like to take. at your core, the adventurous child knows exactly what to do, and, as usual, is bummed out by the left-brained blocks that must be taken into account, which dilute the child's pure interest. discerning the balance between temporal and long-term thinking is a bitch, especially at your point, with the big-bang choice looming. since you aren't sure of what to do, be sure of this...yourself. and...don't worry about mistakes. a mistake is only "made" in hindsight. make sure to always have fun, express yourself, get laid...etc. if you ever feel yourself in a rut, make a dramatic change asap.

concerning the modern world....its not bullshit. this sounds cheesy, but, keep in mind the beauty of the general balance of things. don't lump it into bullshit. you are part of the modern world, and I don't think you're bullshit. you're just as phony and dilluted as anyone.

*edit* oh yah, jump all over opportunity of any kind. if you pass up too many, your desire will stagnate. to hell with your inhibitions.

 

[OldScratch]

Since I am better than twice your age, I feel like someone's dad! Nevertheless:
I would definitely recommend continuing your (formal)education and pursuing a degree on some level, just do it, as Russell suggested on your own terms. No matter how implausable it seems to you today, you WILL change your mind about various things(career, lifestyle, general goals)in time, and having the educational foundation is invaluable when looking to career opportunities and the like down the line. It is clearly easiest to get it done now rather than later - and your brains should make the endeavor fairly painless. And it may be fun...think of the horrors you could visit upon the average Professor by tearing their egalitarian fantasies apart before their eyes!
And of course, you can continue your own 'studies' entirely outside the acedemic world as well. In my later thirties I am stunned at how much I still don't know...yet this fuels me on - to learn more, to know more, not for the sake of it, but because I crave fresh knowledge and never run out of new areas of interest. I suspect you will find no dearth of interests to pursue either.

One need not join the day to day rat-race to be gainfully employed. Moreover, the more education credentials one has under their belt, the more creative, particular and selective they can be with career choices. If you decide that a simple job to pay the rent on that small house in the boondocks is best after all, you will have really lost nothing in attending university...well perhaps a few grand!! But life goes that way...

Beyond all that, I think you will find that no matter what you plan...things will likely turn out differently anyway! As others have noted, stick to what is important to you - but don't be afraid to try things you NEVER would have considered had you planned it all out. Life tends to direct us as much as we it - no matter how much we like to think we are in control.

And after all that to consider, just when you think you have it figured out...you'll meet a beautiful young woman...and your whole plan goes down the tubes anyway

 

[hibernal_dream]

Have you thought about entering into the professions at all? Engineering, Accounting, Law, Medical? These seem the best options if you want to have an important role outside the stuffy universities, and will give you a lot of freedom to shape your individual interests. I couldn't wait to get out of the university so I could actually start learning things I wanted to learn. I found a lot of the academics, while admirable in their teaching and research, often didn't practice what they preached, and were not particularly satisfied with their lives. I know now that higher education is mostly a joke which is only taken seriously by staff and students. If I had known this before, I probably wouldn't have gone at all, and instead took up a trade of some sort.