I need some serious advice! Education.

[Ganks]

Hey guys,
I am having a battle with myself about whether or not to attend college for "Recording Arts".

I am considering going to Full Sail University, but there are a lot of pros and cons.

First off,

Could you tell me:

1. If you have any educational background in Audio Engineering.
2. If so, was spending the time and money on college worth it?
3. If not, why did you decide against going to college for Audio Engineering?

Also,
I want to make being an Audio Engineer a profession.
It is my passion, and I love every aspect of it.
I have improved 10 fold over the first time I recorded, and am learning more and more everyday, but our generation was swindled into thinking that without a college education, you are nothing.

I for one, don't believe this. I believe that you create your own success, but I was just wondering if college played a big part in anyone's success?

The school is VERY expensive, and pretty intensive. I'm sure plenty of people on the forum have attended Full Sail.

If so, could you post your opinions and views on the school?

I hope this thread gets started, and I'll post more of my concerns and questions as it gets going!

Thanks for reading, and any comments, opinions, or other questions are welcome and appreicated!

 

[Morgan C]

Not worth it at all.

Spend that $20k or whatever it is a year, and buy some decent equipment and spend 40 hours a week here and you'll learn way more way faster.

The general consensus is that the only benefit of going to a school like that is to use the uber nice equipment.. but then you get out and realise that no-one else has gear like that and you have to relearn using Reaper and some cheap Firewire interface.

 

[AllanD]

Agreed ^


Execpt I'd spend that 20k on real college. I know a couple of Full Sail guys that work at Home Depot.

 

[Ganks]

Thank you so much for the input!

I definitely get that vibe from this forum, and I feel like I've learned so much in the last few months on this forum. Yeah, I know I'm a reader. But now that I'm gaining more knowledge and experience, I will start contributions.

Anyways,

There's a guy in my area that attended Full Sail, dropped $70k on the full degree, and is over his head in student loan debt. I suppose student loan debt isn't THAT bad, but it's debt, nonetheless.

As far as his recordings go, I think another 2-3 months of trucking along at the pace I'm at now, I can surpass his recording quality. I think the knowledge I've gained from this forum, and the experience I've gained from trial and error and doing it myself is WAY more valuable than dropping $70k on a piece of paper.

For example, I know that I do not have the proper environment, experience, equipment, or knowledge to successfully master a track, and rather than butcher than dynamics and low end of a nice mix by trying to "ITB Master" it myself, I am better off sending it to another, more qualified engineer.

However, since this guy (the one who attended Full Sail), spent his $70k on a degree, took a class on "Digital Mastering", and got his piece of paper that says "Bachelor Degree for Recording Arts", he thinks he can successfully master songs justifiably.

Don't get me wrong, his recordings are good, but they are lacking that polished, professional sound that I know a paid engineer should be able to produce.

Basically, I think recording my band, along with close friends who are in bands (that won't take advantage of me), for free and getting that experience is FAR more valuable than a degree in this industry.

I would love more opinions on the matter, though!

Again, thanks for the input!

 

[Nebulous]

I don't think any course would be worth $70k. Even a course with Andy would not be worth $70k because different people work and understand things in different ways. Trying different techniques might be easier for you in a home studio rather than the flash college studio because you won't have time limits, you won't have to pack up at the end of the day.

 

[Harry Hughes]

Get a degree in something that will pay.
Why the fuck anyone would spend 70K to get a degree in something that doesn't guarantee stable income unless you're at the top of the field (and even then, it's probably still a struggle for some) is beyond me, when you can just get a degree in something else and have an 80 grand a year job+ that's guaranteed.

With that money you earn in another field, you can put into a serious studio for yourself and you'll be getting more clients coming to you than the guy who is almost in poverty because he has just come out of a school realizing he's actually got no equipment or anything and hence wont be getting any clients.
If you're serious about becoming good, you'll do what it takes to become good. This doesn't involve going to a school, but involves hard work and sacrifice on your part.

If a potential client asks to see a degree, show them the fucking door and tell them they can go to some hack with a degree who has 1/10th of your skill and equipment.
If a client wants to have you do work based on your ACTUAL credentials (that is, work you've done previously, samples of your capabilities), then show them the way into your studio.

Oh and never do work for free, EVER. Not even for close friends, because sometimes what might appear to be an easy job, can potentially turn into a nightmare and by the end of it you'll be shooting yourself for doing it for free.
One of my mates wants me to eventually mix a demo for him, and I told him there was zero chance it would be getting done for free, even though he's one of my closest friends I've had that's stuck by me for years.

 

[Mutant]

69K will get you a nice small studio with some very nice equipment + 1K for 10 good books on recording from amazon.com

That and this forum (+ few other) is all you need.

 

[greyskull]

Get a degree in something that will pay.
Why the fuck anyone would spend 70K to get a degree in something that doesn't guarantee stable income unless you're at the top of the field (and even then, it's probably still a struggle for some) is beyond me, when you can just get a degree in something else and have an 80 grand a year job+ that's guaranteed.

With that money you earn in another field, you can put into a serious studio for yourself and you'll be getting more clients coming to you than the guy who is almost in poverty because he has just come out of a school realizing he's actually got no equipment or anything and hence wont be getting any clients.
If you're serious about becoming good, you'll do what it takes to become good. This doesn't involve going to a school, but involves hard work and sacrifice on your part.

If a potential client asks to see a degree, show them the fucking door and tell them they can go to some hack with a degree who has 1/10th of your skill and equipment.
If a client wants to have you do work based on your ACTUAL credentials (that is, work you've done previously, samples of your capabilities), then show them the way into your studio.

Oh and never do work for free, EVER. Not even for close friends, because sometimes what might appear to be an easy job, can potentially turn into a nightmare and by the end of it you'll be shooting yourself for doing it for free.
One of my mates wants me to eventually mix a demo for him, and I told him there was zero chance it would be getting done for free, even though he's one of my closest friends I've had that's stuck by me for years.

This is the answer.
having a qualification makes you no more likely to get work in a 'big' studio and in some cases maybe less likely; because they'll perceive you as an arrogant wanker.

 

[slashvanyoung]

Your portfolio is everything in this business, a degree almost useless (unless your aiming for getting hired as an engineer in broadcasting etc.).

 

[slashvanyoung]

My advise would be be: study something else, that will more likely get you hired.

While your studying, use your spare time improving as an audio engineer by self-study and record/mix as much as possible. Maybe try to intern at a studio. This will built up a portfolio and train your skills as you go along studying your "main profession".

Eventually, when you're done studying, you can pursue your "main profession", securing your income, while further improving your portfolio, building a client base.

And then, if you are lucky AND you have the talent, your portfolio will eventually reach a quality that will enable you to become a full time engineer.

 

[xturbox]

I would suggest to go in the direction of electrical engineering/computer science/mechanical engineering (acoustics, noise control) . You can look for something like digital signal processing, circuitry etc. Those degrees will give you a job and ability to understand how hardware works and how to fix/modify it. May be you will be able to make your own hardware/plugins. All this will be helpful as AE.

 

[Ganks]

Thanks so much guys for the input!
I'm definitely leaning toward NOT going to school, almost 99%.
I'll just keep at it like I am now, and continue reading, and learning.

I'm doing a band this weekend for free, because it's a pop-punk bank (think mayday parade), and I have little-to-no experience with this type of music. They don't have money anyways, and i have no potential clients lined up anyways.

I think the experience will valuable enough to justify doing it for free.


Any more opinions? Does anyone here actually have a degree? Haha.
I read Sneap dropped out of school at 15. Any similar stories?

Everyone share WHERE they are today, and how you got there!
I'd love to hear!

 

[smy1]

Dont do the band for free. DO NOT DO IT FOR FREE.

Get 50 bucks and beer up front. Or a night with the singer's girlfriend. Or ... or ... or ...

... just dont do it without compensation.

 

[grywolf627]

In this day in age, it is DEFINITELY not worth it, if this is what the cost is. When I went to recording school (long time ago) we didn't have the resources that are available now. But also, the community college system in my city was the ONLY school in the whole state at the time that had an audio engineering/recording program. So my classes cost only the typical community college prices (next to nothing) and had access to some GREAT equipment at the time. But with the things available today, the internet, and knowledgeable people on this forum...recording schools are a complete rip off. Even my teacher way back then was the first to tell me that in this field, a degree is nothing more than a piece of paper, and it's not worth more than that.

 

[Charlie E.]

If a potential client asks to see a degree, show them the fucking door and tell them they can go to some hack with a degree who has 1/10th of your skill and equipment.

That's just the thing though. No client would ever ask that.
I don't think school is a bad thing but it's definitely not a necessity. I am of the opinion that it can facilitate learning but even without going to school you will figure it out anyway.

I almost went to full sail but decided last moment to go to a university instead and get a more complete education. It gives you more options even if you go the audio engineering route. I switched to performance after 3 years but those I know who stuck it out all have different jobs. From Guitar Center manager, to Theatre accompanist, Texas Instruments programmer, Music Theory college instructor, Church Music Director, Live sound engineer, and of course studio engineers.

I think you'll find that it's difficult to be a full time audio engineer. You either need loads of money to create your own studio or get lucky and get hired at one or both!
Personally I'd keep my options open.
Best of luck.

 

[ahjteam]

Audio Engineer is quite a lot like being a nurse. It requires "the calling" and the salary sucks compared to what you need to do.

 

[grywolf627]

...I think you'll find that it's difficult to be a full time audio engineer. You either need loads of money to create your own studio or get lucky and get hired at one or both!
Personally I'd keep my options open...

Audio Engineer is quite a lot like being a nurse. It requires "the calling" and the salary sucks compared to what you need to do.

Quoted for truth. Not to mention, the long and odd hours required. Especially if you're running you're own studio and trying to make it a full-time/sole income thing. Forget about having any sort of free time.

 

[Everybody]

What about spending 16k on school? I mean im just trying to give school the benefit of the doubt. You can teach yourself math, possibly at a fast pace if you can understand it all, but sometimes it is really nice to have someone to help you so you dont second guess yourself, and possibly spend a lot of time doing the wrong thing.

 

[GarethSE]

Just to chime in, all I've heard about this Full Sail thing is that you come out utterly clueless on the other end and that it's pretty much a laughing stock.
Read that thread on gearslutz about all the funny studio stories and the amount of time "so we had this full sail graduate kid interning..." starts off the stories is mindboggling.

 

[Ganks]

I'm liking what I'm hearing about the schooling thing.
I'm very much a do-it-yourself, trial and error, figuring out things on your own.
And I always do my best to get where I want to be.

As far as becoming an Audio Engineer full-time, it seems like you guys think that is far fetched?

I don't like that.

Do a lot of people fail, or something?