I just can't make the toms boom!

[AshM]

OK, I know on face value that might seem rather vague but let me explain...

I'm cool with the snare, tight and snappy. Good with overheads, nice and bright. The high tom - I'm fine with that too!

But when it comes to the lower toms/ floor tom they aaalllways come out like just a flat lifeless donk! Same with the kick really, can't get it to thud. When I do softer type bands this is OK, I can get away with it as it sounds more live, but for heavy stuff and metal its key to have tight, thuddy, boomy sounds. And unfortunately I always have to resort to samples, which is OK I guess, but I'd like to be able to get the booooom.

I use 421's on toms and D112 on kick.

Please help!

 

[devouredremains]

 

[chonchball]

do you properly rehead the top and bottom with the designated head for your desired sound, or do you expect the mic to sprinkle magic recording dust into the sound of toms?

the close mic will give you your attack and warmth and SOME depth, but you need to play with other mics in other positions to capture the resonance you're after that will sound like a "boomy" deep tom in the mix.

if the tom sounds thuddy in the room though, it most certainly will sound thuddy on the recording. put on new heads. tune it. get it to sound like a note, not a refridgerator box.

 

[gabriel g.]

can you post a mix?
It´s better to give you tips when listening to your work

 

[Sickan]

@ devouredremains:

 

[AshM]

do you expect the mic to sprinkle magic recording dust into the sound of toms?

Yes I've never miked up a resonant head, I'll try that. But from looking at photos and reading about "big" engineers/producers they don't do that often. What I haven't done yet, mainly due to the time-scale and money of bands I've recorded, is use new skins. Next week the studio I work at is getting a house kit in, from then I'll have the luxury so bring it on!

can you post a mix?
It´s better to give you tips when listening to your work

Sure, he's one:

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=7776799

(and yes I know the overheads are too loud/bright )

 

[greyskull]

Drums , tuning, mic ,position, pre.
And if tad is to be believed, nuendo... MegAlolz

 

[joeymusicguy]

Waves RBass

120hz - 150hz for higher toms

60hz - 80hz for lower toms

set the intensity relatively low because a little goes a long way with bass frequecies (like -12)

 

[chonchball]

Yes I've never miked up a resonant head, I'll try that.

Don't necessarily mic the resonant head, but definitely mic somewhere in the room where the tom resonates. The decay of the head will be in direct relation to the notes that both the top and bottom head play together. There's a sticky topic about drum prep on this forum as well as a multitude of other ideas across the web. basically, get yourself your own drum key and learn how to tune toms. This is how I do it with very positive results:

1. unscrew every lug until it is loose
2. finger tighten each lug in a star pattern, but don't turn past the point of first resistance
3. give each lug about a quarter turn, at this point the head should start to have a little bit of a note to it rather than just being flabby and loose
you'll start to hear where the note of the drum WANTS to be. go around each lug and tap GENTLY by the lug with your finger or the stick to hear the note. Check to see if every lug plays the same note at a very low velocity.
5. start getting ANAL about the note that each lug is giving you. once they are all the same on one head, you should get a great note when you smack it!

try this out with only one head on the top til you get used to it, then learn how to use this method to adjust the tuning relationship between both heads in order to get the proper note AND sustain from the drum. pulling the drum out of tune with itself a little can help shorten the sustain of the drum without using moon gels or duct tape.

 

[AshM]

Drums , tuning, mic ,position, pre.
And if tad is to be believed, nuendo... MegAlolz

Just so you know, I've been using 421's through an API 3124.

Waves RBass

120hz - 150hz for higher toms

60hz - 80hz for lower toms

set the intensity relatively low because a little goes a long way with bass frequecies (like -12)

I actually do have access to RBass, so I'll be giving this a go next weekend, thanks a lot fella!

Don't necessarily mic the resonant head, but definitely mic somewhere in the room where the tom resonates. The decay of the head will be in direct relation to the notes that both the top and bottom head play together. There's a sticky topic about drum prep on this forum as well as a multitude of other ideas across the web. basically, get yourself your own drum key and learn how to tune toms. This is how I do it with very positive results:

1. unscrew every lug until it is loose
2. finger tighten each lug in a star pattern, but don't turn past the point of first resistance
3. give each lug about a quarter turn, at this point the head should start to have a little bit of a note to it rather than just being flabby and loose
you'll start to hear where the note of the drum WANTS to be. go around each lug and tap GENTLY by the lug with your finger or the stick to hear the note. Check to see if every lug plays the same note at a very low velocity.
5. start getting ANAL about the note that each lug is giving you. once they are all the same on one head, you should get a great note when you smack it!

try this out with only one head on the top til you get used to it, then learn how to use this method to adjust the tuning relationship between both heads in order to get the proper note AND sustain from the drum. pulling the drum out of tune with itself a little can help shorten the sustain of the drum without using moon gels or duct tape.

Thanks for the in depth explanation man, really helpful. I'm actually planning on dedicating shitloads of time to learning on how to tune drums properly as of next week when I have a kit at my disposal 24/7. So I'll try these tips out for sure

Cheers guys!

 

[Charlie E.]

Besides having the toms properly tuned, hitting them hard seems to be the difference in my experience.
Hell even if the lower velocity hits in DFH sound like ass imo.

 

[AudioPhile777]

I find that a room mic and or res-head mics REALLY help for this...

I loves me the room sound...

 

[chonchball]

room sound really DOES go a long way. Every room sounds and reacts different. For a great example of my room in work, check out The Swellers.

They were just signed to Fueled By Ramen and did their drum tracks in my studio with Mark Michalik (King, Kid Brother Collective). Mark really used the room to his advantage and chose it for its unique and powerful drum sound.

http://www.myspace.com/theswellers

the reverb that you hear on the snare is not a verb, but rather a crunched room mic. the toms are also a little apparent, but this will give you a good example of how to make a room come into play in a mix and not just try to fix everything with reverb plugins or eq plugins.

 

[Styvo]

Chonchball gives great advice here.
I approach it the same way,but the only thing I'd like to add that hasn't been mentioned is,with new heads try and seat them.Make sure the head is evenly placed across the drum,follow Choncs advice about placing the rim on and finger tight each lug,and then add some weight with the palm of your hand and push down on the drum head to help stretch it.
All this does is allow the head to potentially stay in tune for longer periods.It may seem weird at first,but i used to literally have the drum on the floor and when i got to this step i would take off my shoes and stand with one foot on the drum head for about 40sec to a minute.
Some people will argue that stretching a head isn't important but I'm not from that school of thinking.

 

[Melodeath]

I've heard of peopel doign that before, but it seems like the drum would splinter into pieces if you stood on the head haha

...if the head itself didn't rip first, that is

 

[GarethSE]

that drum sound is gorgeous chonch
you obviously really know your shit too dude

 

[AshM]

Hey chonch, cheers for that man.

In all honesty, I never thought of the resonance in the room adding to the depth and fullness of the tom sounds, but thats a great point you make. The room I've been recording drums in is an L shaped live room, modeled on the classic Motown live room shape, but I also have the option of 3 more small-mid size rooms, but they're fairly dead. You say mic where the toms resonate in the room, is it literally as easy as walking around the room and listening for tom resonance?

Great drum sound there man yeah, thats exactly the kind I'd like to achieve

And Styvo, I've also heard of ways to keep skins in tune, hadn't heard of standing on it, I've heard of the hairdryer method being pretty good.

This is why I love this forum, people are so keen to help and give genuinely helpful advice, I'll be trying new skins, tuning, resonant head miking and room miking next weekend which is when the house kit arrives

 

[crosstalk]

I've heard of peopel doign that before, but it seems like the drum would splinter into pieces if you stood on the head haha

...if the head itself didn't rip first, that is

I do it, but I weight in around 155 lbs. So I can't speak for bigger dudes.

 

[greyskull]

awesome band, great drum sound

 

[chonchball]

ah yes! what you mentioned about stretching the heads, great point! that's something i do as well but forgot to mention it. it's much like stretching in new guitar strings. they just need to be loosened up and stretched out. don't worry about tearing them (especially the 2 ply!) you really won't hurt anything if you're just trying to give it a good stretch and not using it as a trampoline

and yes, it pretty much is as easy as walking around and finding where some nice resonance is. the farther away, obvious the more decayed and more ROOMY it will sound. If you can save up for a nice condenser mic try this trick that i like to use

put your close up mic near the rim where you would anyway, but then put a nice condenser above the tom using the 7:1 ratio rule (that's a whole 'nother topic relating to mic phase relationships, but if you are only using 2 mics to test this trick out it won't hurt your overall kit sound yet) crank the gain on the condenser (i'm thinking something like an AKG C414, AT4040, AT4050, or even a pencil condenser like an SM81 or an SM94, you get the picture) point that straight down on the tom. that condenser mic that's at about head level when you're standing up will pick up GREAT tom resonance. This is why using overheads as a KIT sound can be so important. it just sucks cuz you can't really do this with a drummer who is all over the place on his timing or really bashing the hell out of his cymbals. but this is where making triggered samples of that mic comes into play! get few dry hits of him hitting that tom, then make a sample of that resonance and keep that mic out of the final mix and just trigger that resonant sound with no cymbal bleed into your mix so every time he hits the close up tom mic, you're also hearing the tom resonate without all that cymbal bleed and clutter from the kit. all that clean resonance can be then brought up into the mix to taste and you'll instantly feel some of that boomy decay that you're searching for