"I Worship Chaos" Discussion Thread
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T3h_Killjoy
Back to fuck shit up
Well, we can continue talking about what sounds like what, etc., but I really don't see a point. You defined sound of Norther by their second(?) album and you gonna stick to it. I don't really fancy either mirrors of madness and dreams of endless war, so I like their more recent stuff and the new Bodom song kinda reminds of that.
I'm gonna stay by that.
rj rl
multidimensionally dyslexic
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Also I don't get what's wrong with another SW (besides that it is impossible if we're realistic here). Another as in another, not as in poorly made copy. Loads of bands manage to stay true to what made them who they are. Think Candlemass, Dark Tranquility, Dismember, Unleashed, Kreator and basically every DM band ever like Dying Fetus or Cannibal Corpse. They're hugely successful doing what would be an uninspiring copy of their old self if you were right. On the other hand there are even more bands that disappoint their fans with each new record. E.g., In Flames, Opeth, Metallica, Annihilator, etc. Children of Bodom is sure on their way to the second list.
It's not so much about wanting another album like the old ones, it's about wanting them to make good music like in the past, without caring what colour the artwork and sound is, or whether it's neo-classical or neo-Chinese.
And Morrigan was received well. It's just this new song kinda changes the perspective, making us afraid the good ideas are in fact scarce, making the "silent moments" in Morrigan seem empty of ideas, instead of atmospheric silence. Morrigan's chorus is weak, another boring COB chorus that's repeated way too many times.
Oh and I do think a guitar solo is mandatory for a COB track. They should've made them more electric and interesting, deriving from the melody, over a badass rhythm and atmosphere. But no, they make a song that has NO guitar solo, has NO atmosphere, has NO melody...
Don't get me wrong, I'm still excited. I knew not expect anything as good as FTR anyway. I just don't see many bands who could do an album that thrills me...
I fucking don't like when great art is dumbed down for big audience. If Alexi just lost his creativity and is too stupid to read my posts, it's okay, but if the music is purposefully simplified for dummies, what a disappointment... The new fans of IWC like groove metal and think solos are silly.
I beg this is a one-off and the album is Bodom-standard. But I hesitate lift my hopes, and am no longer surprised if there's blazing solos and unisons in only one song. This band's music has really gotten worse in time, as I no longer have any interest in the last two albums.
ESA1996
Active Member
My last comment was partly a joke (At least the "This song doesn't sound like Norther!" part). Anyway, you're right, songs on Till' Death Unites Us sound kinda similar to IWC. Said album just is my least favorite album from them unless you count Circle Regenerated. DoEW is actually my favorite followed by MoM, DU and N in that order.
Andry_Wildchild
Member
I'm not sure that's a serious question since that's not even a possibility , but if all of a sudden they felt like pop music is what naturally comes out of them then I wouldn't blame them for going that way.
There's nothing worse for a musician than playing something that's forced and unnatural. That's the way I see it at least .
Who's to say what is good music and what is not? You might not like something but you can't say it's shit just because of that.
Also , I don't think alexi has anything else to prove in terms of composing skills. He's just a different dude with different influences , living in a different country and 20 years older than he was . I confident he could make kissing the shadows 2 if he wanted to but he's experimenting with music in a different way I guess
Hell, you speak a lot of truth. I hope your posts could get these Old bodom freaks into their senses!
"I'm a die hard old school COB fan but the argument "it's not like SW/HB/FT ergo is shit" is just plain stupid.
I used to feel that way for a long time but I got over it. If I wanna listen to some old school children of bodom I simply put on the old albums , why would I wanna hear something that's pretty much a copy of something already done? That's why those albums are unique in the first place. And this still gives us the opportunity to listen to some other COB styles which are all valid and legit."
"I really think COB have stepped up their game a lot in terms of composition and I'm really looking forward to hearing the whole album , pretty confident there's gonna be some sick material in there."
"... but if all of a sudden they felt like pop music is what naturally comes out of them then I wouldn't blame them for going that way.
There's nothing worse for a musician than playing something that's forced and unnatural. That's the way I see it at least."
"Also , I don't think alexi has anything else to prove in terms of composing skills. He's just a different dude with different influences , living in a different country and 20 years older than he was . I confident he could make kissing the shadows 2 if he wanted to but he's experimenting with music in a different way I guess"
Think about these things
Technically he could write material similar to the old stuff, but it would no longer have that magic, because he's lost a lot of his creativity. With the current stuff Bodom would never make the breakthrough they did with Hatebreeder and Follow the Reaper, they'd just be 'one of the metal bands.' Then they sold their soul with HCDR, then they lost the plot, they're kind of there but they're not quite.
World class breakthrough are always rare and it's a simple fact every artist has their breakthrough moment. For COB the only albums capable of that were the blue and green one. It's naive to say every release from an artist is 'cult stuff.' Everything since HCDR has been subconsciously relying on the fact they're already famous, instead of grasping the world by the balls with amazingness and crunching it.
Most famous artists only have one good song, COB just happens to have a couple dozen. No-one has endless amounts of heart-blood. Once the therapy is done thru music there's not so much emotion and event to write about, it's pretty normal, it just becomes more about technicality instead of emotional energy.
World class breakthrough are always rare and it's a simple fact every artist has their breakthrough moment. For COB the only albums capable of that were the blue and green one. It's naive to say every release from an artist is 'cult stuff.' Everything since HCDR has been subconsciously relying on the fact they're already famous, instead of grasping the world by the balls with amazingness and crunching it.
Most famous artists only have one good song, COB just happens to have a couple dozen. No-one has endless amounts of heart-blood. Once the therapy is done thru music there's not so much emotion and event to write about, it's pretty normal, it just becomes more about technicality instead of emotional energy.
rj rl
multidimensionally dyslexic
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you say it as if it's fucking rocket science and we're dumb for not getting it. You're fighting strawmans here. All those "musician should write what he feels like, if he's true musician blablabla" are obvious platitudes yet you assume we don't get it, being retarded oldschool mdm elitists in denial. No, for fuck sake, we just don't like the new songs. What do you want from us - to suddenly start loving it? Guess what, that's not happening.
Besides, think about what? About how some dude figures "COB have stepped up their game a lot in terms of composition". Well I disagree, so what?
Moreover your whole argument is fucking invalid because 2 years ago Alexi somehow felt like composing HOB, a decent, maybe even good album that's surely in the same vein as their old stuff. And you're blaming us for expecting a little more of it?
Now, the last thing. There are two possibilities for any artist.
The first one is to develop as you grow in experience, cross the old boundaries not because you need to, but because you're exploring the new territories.
The second one, however, is to run out of ideas because all you do is touring with metalcore bands 90% of the time and you release an album every two year.
Now you might say "pff Alexi obviously going the first way" but I'm sorry, what new territories he's at? Fucking 3 riffs per song -coreish territories? That's not new my friends.
Yeah, it's an excuse of a COB song to just have technical riffing and then that mandatory solo section. RRF was like that, fuck I hated it.
<Arcane>
Active Member
You say it. It's impossible. I like SW but it would be a step back.
Well, you will never learn it. Different people = different opinions. IMO Bodom made their best music since AYDY (except BD). You are more a guy who want's simple melodies but tons of atmosphere. I for myself can give a shit on atmoshpere but I wan't technical advanced parts, different rythm parts like in COTN, the heaviness of LB, HOB and great solos. My main problem atm is that I think, there won't be any good solo on IWC.
Btw. I think IWC has tons of atmosphere in the chorus... and even one orchestra hit for you.
That's wrong. Just because you like old Bodom more doesn't mean he has lost creativity. On the contrary... HB and FTR sound almost the same whereas the new albums totally differ from each other. I've never seen any band before which was able to create a totally new album every 2 or 3 years with different tones, tunings, technical elements, emotions,... That's why it's wrong to speak of lack of/no creativity.
Andry_Wildchild
Member
you say it as if it's fucking rocket science and we're dumb for not getting it. You're fighting strawmans here. All those "musician should write what he feels like, if he's true musician blablabla" are obvious platitudes yet you assume we don't get it, being retarded oldschool mdm elitists in denial. No, for fuck sake, we just don't like the new songs. What do you want from us - to suddenly start loving it? Guess what, that's not happening.
Besides, think about what? About how some dude figures "COB have stepped up their game a lot in terms of composition". Well I disagree, so what?
Moreover your whole argument is fucking invalid because 2 years ago Alexi somehow felt like composing HOB, a decent, maybe even good album that's surely in the same vein as their old stuff. And you're blaming us for expecting a little more of it?
Now, the last thing. There are two possibilities for any artist.
— The first one is to develop as you grow in experience, cross the old boundaries not because you need to, but because you're exploring the new territories.
— The second one, however, is to run out of ideas because all you do is touring with metalcore bands 90% of the time and you release an album every two year.
Now you might say "pff Alexi obviously going the first way" but I'm sorry, what new territories he's at? Fucking 3 riffs per song -coreish territories? That's not new my friends.
Wow, chill dude. No one is asking you to like shit... if you read my post carefully you'll see how I'm just giving you my opinion , clearly stating that you can like or dislike something however much you want. I'm only saying that you liking a song or not doesn't necessarily make it good or bad. That's it.
What you are trying to get across instead , is that you are right and we are wrong , which is kinda pretentious. You might say HOB was better than IWC , but I'm sure there's people who might say the opposite,so again who's to say what's better than what? It's a matter of taste man. Get over it and stop expecting stuff from a musician when really he's the only one that's got a say in the music he makes. If you don't appreciate it than don't listen to it but don't go around saying he should have made something "better" cause that to me is pointless. If you've got a clear idea of what music you expect or like, go make it yourself and listen to it or whatever I dunno
Yeah you see? First you're like "solos ARE kinda mandatory when we talking about alexi and cob , but then you realize yourself that when it's kinda pushed and done just because 'we are cob and we have to have a solo' you can actually tell that it's not totally genuine but done just cause that's what people might expect from us. my point exactly. I'd rather have no solo over something that's there just because it has to be there.
^ this. No wonder this post is coming from Arcane who is a great guitar player himself and smart enough to know that the most insane and complex stuff composed by Alexi is definitely not in the old albums. We might agree on the fact the the green and blue album had that magic and feeling to it that prolly can't be compared , but in terms of composition and technique COB have stepped up their game a whole lot since the newer albums and I don't even think that's an opinion. If you know some things about guitar and music you can see how the song schemes got much much more elaborated and technical.
T3h_Killjoy
Back to fuck shit up
I still don't get it how can anyone call old CoB super creative and stuff if it was basicly powerchords and sweeped arpeggios all over them. Inb4... b...b...but muh atmosphere.
rj rl
multidimensionally dyslexic
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Andry_Wildchild, I wasn't answering you, rather the dude who cited you as if you're Jesus and your word is the final truth lol. I actually share your position and I don't know how you came to conclusion that I'm trying to say you're ultimately wrong. Where you're actually wrong though is in assuming someone's asking Alexi to do such and such, we're merely expressing our frustration with the new songs for whatever reasons. Like Arcane's reasoning is completely different from mine but we both don't like IWC. Note how he doesn't even give a shit about SW and HB. In fact if you just went to the page 31 and read the responses to IWC (instead of bashing imaginary people who want IWC to sound like FTR), you'd notice literally no one's even making reference to the old records. Except maybe Joonas, who's trolling nonstop. I personally love Blooddrunk and think RRF was a nice album for a change.
ps: insane and complex my ass. That has nothing to do with writing nice catchy stuff, let alone with musical quality. Brain Drill shits all over 10 Bodom albums combined, but who cares. No disrespect to Arcane, but good guitar player is a guy who practices a lot and that doesn't has anything to do with knowing your music either.
ps: insane and complex my ass. That has nothing to do with writing nice catchy stuff, let alone with musical quality. Brain Drill shits all over 10 Bodom albums combined, but who cares. No disrespect to Arcane, but good guitar player is a guy who practices a lot and that doesn't has anything to do with knowing your music either.
Some people should start listening to music out of the "guitar nerd" perspective...who gives a fuck about technical playing when the final product doesn't move you at all.
Andry_Wildchild
Member
I was just saying that the new bodom is more technical and complex compared to the old , not saying that technical = good.
I totally agree with you on that , like somebody was saying before all old COB is is a bunch of basic chords, fast scale runs and arpeggios but the music was pure awesomeness. You could make the best music simply playing around 3 notes.
Rune
Member
- Aug 7, 2005
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The only album I really can't stand is Blooddrunk, well I like Banned from heaven, kinda, but the rest of it is shit, even the demo of tie my rope is better than the rest of the album..... Its more anout the overall sound and mixibg I dont like. Alexi using SD blackouts....and new amp and poor songwriting. I think IWC would be pretty much like that, except maybe worse. Its actually the first album im not the slightes excited about, maybe it is because of the tracks being released or maybe it is the overall soundscape. I think it is both. Loved blooddrunk until i got the whole album, also RRF with exception og WIWI single, but the other tracks early leaks and preview clip had me concinced. HOB on the orher hand I love, guitarsound is a little too spikey, but other than that it is the best bodom album since 2003!
rj rl
multidimensionally dyslexic
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This logic is obvious to me but many people seem to ignore it so here goes.
If you take a large enough group of people you'll find individuals with arbitrary tastes in music. Some will like utter shit, some will dislike what's obviously good - there will be everyone, it's just a statistical fact. You see it on the board, where some people think IWC sounds like Norther, some people think it sounds like Necrophagist, some people think it sounds nothing like mentioned bands, some people like it, some hate it, some are kinda in between. Thing is - all of that was fucking obvious from the beginning, given the amount of forumers here.
What matters is not individual opinions but overall reception. How do you measure that? Couldn't be easier - you just convert the opinions into something like 0 to 10 scale and find the arithmetical mean. This is what you get as a result:
You see that the majority thinks BD and RRF are mediocre at best, and the band clearly recognized it by not playing it live and bouncing back with HOB. What the majority thinks is unfortunately the only way to tell "good" music from "bad" music.
The above logic completely invalidates the arguments of the form "hey but I liked it so fuck you" or "I hate it so it's shit". Instead you listen to them all and average the result. At least half the board hates IWC, that would translate into 50% on Metal-Archives, which is equivalent to something below RRF.
If you take a large enough group of people you'll find individuals with arbitrary tastes in music. Some will like utter shit, some will dislike what's obviously good - there will be everyone, it's just a statistical fact. You see it on the board, where some people think IWC sounds like Norther, some people think it sounds like Necrophagist, some people think it sounds nothing like mentioned bands, some people like it, some hate it, some are kinda in between. Thing is - all of that was fucking obvious from the beginning, given the amount of forumers here.
What matters is not individual opinions but overall reception. How do you measure that? Couldn't be easier - you just convert the opinions into something like 0 to 10 scale and find the arithmetical mean. This is what you get as a result:
You see that the majority thinks BD and RRF are mediocre at best, and the band clearly recognized it by not playing it live and bouncing back with HOB. What the majority thinks is unfortunately the only way to tell "good" music from "bad" music.
The above logic completely invalidates the arguments of the form "hey but I liked it so fuck you" or "I hate it so it's shit". Instead you listen to them all and average the result. At least half the board hates IWC, that would translate into 50% on Metal-Archives, which is equivalent to something below RRF.
rj rl
multidimensionally dyslexic
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I'd like to comment on the discrepancy regarding AYDY. Metal-Archives think is sucks, Last.fm lists its songs among the most played. It simply has to do with the amount of people in consideration. Last.fm has by far bigger a sample and everybody knows broad audience likes thrashy-numetal-metalcoreish stuff, hence In Your Face on the second place (stupid song if you ask me).
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