Improving as a mixer: Drums

[The Unavoidable]

I need some quality advice here. I'm kinda stuck in a rut as far as my mixing goes, and it's getting quite depressing really.


And the reason be drums. Those fuckers. I have since forever been using EzDrummer, with relatively good results. I got into sample replacement quite early on, so with some nice kick/snare samples from around here I made due.

Needless to say, it's not really doing the trick anymore. I'm getting quite sick of mixing programmed drums overall, and having to spend half the time mixing them trying to make them sound remotely 'real'. But the problem is that recording real drums is pretty much not an alternative. I've done so in the past on occassions, and even though it always was a huge pain in the ass it came out infinitly better then fucking EzD. However, those instances are few and far between since I neither have the proper equipment to record drums (multi-input interfaces, mics, etc) and even if I did that would probably still be several months in between recording sessions.

So what the hell? Getting the gear required on my current income would be damn difficult, but I guess not impossible. A place to record, drummers/bands to record, etfc would be even harder. I want to escape the swamp that is programming drums and the hell that is mixing them, but doing so would leave me with nothing left to mix at all. fucking HALP


I'm just wondering if there is anyone who was/is in the same situation, and got out of/dealth with it or if anyone simply have some advice on how to deal with this.

 

[greyskull]

rent a studio, and get someone you trust to track drums for you, or do it yourself in said rented studio.

 

[ahjteam]

However, those instances are few and far between since I neither have the proper equipment to record drums (multi-input interfaces, mics, etc) and even if I did that would probably still be several months in between recording sessions.

Start from small and increase your collection little by little. I had only one microphone in 2001, now I have 18.

Also Behringer ADA8000/Focusrite Octopre gives you extra 8 channels for 200-350€

 

[aclarson]

Affording the necessary equipment is, unfortunately, necessary. You can do pretty good things with a relatively modest investment, though.

It's a matter of priority and sacrifce. If you want be an engineer, you need gear, plain and simple. I've been in the poor house for a while because of my music addiction.

But for the time being, I'd take a mono room or stereo OHs and add samples, that'd give you a lot more real sound probably as long as the drums sound ok. I use a Studio Projects B1 for my room mic, it's only $100 and sounds great, really versatile mic, I use it on acoustic guitar, cabs, and occasional vocals also. The MXL 603s are supposed to be good for the money, and they're dirt cheap. If you go mono, just find a spot in the room that has a nice balance of the kit with a bit of a high emphasis, you can reinforce the low-end with samples. With your experience in sample work, I'd imagine you could make this happen fairly easily.

 

[Damian B]

You could invest in an electronic kit and run it into Ezdrummer, AD, or Superior.

 

[veronicafalls]

You could invest in an electronic kit and run it into Ezdrummer, AD, or Superior.

+1 or use steven slate drums they are the most popular on this forum.

 

[lolzgreg]

I suggest the following:

Getting some obscure, but good sounding sample packs (with cymbals) and programming them into battery for something as use as one of your own signature drum kits.

I would also recommend going to a pro studio at some point, having them set up a kit, tune it to perfection, set up mics, and have a great drummer play it so you can sample it from top to bottom, end up with like 2000 wavs and make em into your own programmable kit.

As a mixer, these days, I think you need to be able to put out an either stellar generic, or great sounding original style mix that really works.

-Greg

 

[Morgan C]

I feel your pain. Finding somewhere to track drums is hard. Pretty much impossible if you want to do it yourself, not in someone else's studio and on their time.

There's so many things to take into account, from the room (most important and the hardest and most expensive thing to get right), the drum kit, drummer, heads, tuning, mic'ing. Then you have to go through the pain of editing everything.


If you have a place to track drums, just get some half-decent OHs, and use mics to sample replace on all the drums. It'll take a loooong time (and a lot of luck) to be able to get a good sound without sample replacement, especially when you consider the guys at the very top of their game, with all the gear in the world, are completely sample replacing all the time.

The problem with programmed drums is you can tell 'that's S2.0' or 'that's Slate' from a mile away. That said, I think MF has the best cymbals, and I'm getting fairly decent results combining Slate drums with each other, or with things from my huge sample library. And I don't think they sound like Slate at all anymore. Also Slate's AMG makes it really easy to get 'realistic' drums. Although when I say 'realistic', I mean it sounds like a real drummer that's been sample replaced. It does NOT sound like a real drummer with no sample replacement. I've yet to see any drum software that can do that, but then there's not really a huge demand for it, is there?

Samples of Slate (with other samples on the snare. I'm aware the toms sound shit. And Slate's cymbals are ugly, hopefully Deluxe will fix it up).
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/SlateLostElementPing.mp3
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/RockyDrumsSolo.mp3
http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/324723/RockyDrumsMix.mp3

 

[ATLA]

i love that snare on rockdrumsmix!

its hard when you dont have alot of cash flow and want real drums! my drummer bugs me about recording his drums. His kit sounds like poop! terrible cymbals and refuses to tune/get new heads as he thinks his are "fine". i tell him if he wants to record he has to pay for studio time simply because i cant afford to pay for him. Until you get the right gear ezd and others alike are all guys like us can afford to work with.

 

[fade_2_black]

Start from small and increase your collection little by little. I had only one microphone in 2001, now I have 18.

Also Behringer ADA8000/Focusrite Octopre gives you extra 8 channels for 200-350€

Did you just compare Behringer to... Focusrite? :zombie:

 

[Fragle]

the ada8000 is actually pretty damn good for giving you another 8 channels of a/d/a conversion.
the mic pres are nothing one would want to run anything remotely important through obviously, but as a mic pre for additional triggers they'll work just fine. no need for using your good pres just for a trigger track really.

 

[ahjteam]

I just had this idea for starting up... Get the most critical parts of drumkit sounding good and then deal with what you have with the rest of the kit. Meaning: Get a good sounding snare and good sounding cymbals. You can pretty much just trigger the toms and kick.

Did you just compare Behringer to... Focusrite? :zombie:

If you use it for triggers, who gives a shit what it says on the side of the preamp as it won't be on the final mix anyway?

 

[PostMortem1666]

the ada8000 is actually pretty damn good for giving you another 8 channels of a/d/a conversion.
the mic pres are nothing one would want to run anything remotely important through obviously, but as a mic pre for additional triggers they'll work just fine. no need for using your good pres just for a trigger track really.

Yep. That is exactly what I use mine for. Usually talkback, scratch tracks, etc.

 

[ElektricEyez]

Is paying someone to track drums for you an option? I'm not talking renting a studio etc, but rather recording your guitars and then FTP'ing to someone else to write and record drums for you? There are places and I'm sure people here who would do it. Sort of like hiring a studio drummer, only elsewhere.

I dunno man just a thought!