Impulse Loader selection

[H-evolve]

Hi all,

I am new at mixing/recording, so I am spending a lot of time reading this forum and a lot of other stuff, in order to learn about the subject.

But I still have some unanswered questions and though I should registrer to the forum and ask.

My first question is regarding impulse loader. I see that a lot of people use free softwares, such as keFIR, but I also hear about paid softwares, like Recabinet.

I saw a lot of people saying that, the Impulse Loader, free or not, should produce the same sound if you load the same .wave file to it. I did the test, between keFIR and Recabinet, using the same file, and it is FAR from producing the same sound. I tried playing with the settings in Recabinet a little bit, and it really seems like the difference is just there, it's not just a question of settings.

I even saw youtube videos where you clearly hear NO between one loader and the other. But there are other videos where you clearly hear that there IS indeed a difference.

So, I feel a bit lost... Who's right? My personal test makes me think that there is, but perhaps I did something wrong, or I'm missing something...

In case it is needed, my current setup is:

- LTD ZH-7
- Native Instrument Komplete Audio 6
- Reaper
- TSE TS808
- LePou LE456
- keFIR or Recabinet

 

[bryan_kilco]

Are you using the same impulse and then also making sure all the settings inside the loader are the same?

I've only used a few in my time. NadIR and LeCab. Both work great and maybe it's time I do an actual comparison between the 2.

 

[H-evolve]

Are you using the same impulse and then also making sure all the settings inside the loader are the same?

I've only used a few in my time. NadIR and LeCab. Both work great and maybe it's time I do an actual comparison between the 2.

Yes, I am loading the same impulse file. Regarding the loader settings, it's quite difficult to actually have the same settings, as keFIR has so few options (you only have 3 buttons and one is the volume).

The sound coming out of keFIR was grainy/digital and not so good in general. I had a big improvement using the same impulse file in Recabinet with the default settings. Playing with the Recabinet settings do change the tone, but I can't change them in such a way that I get a tone close to what keFIR was doing.

It seemed logical to me that a free (and old) software would not be as good as Recabinet.

It's just that I read from different places that changing the "Loader" should not affect the tone. Yet it did...

Also, LeCab 2 didn't work for me. I had serious lag issues using Reaper. Plus I couldn't find a 64bits version.

 

[He's Dead, Jim]

I've found little difference between Recabinet and LeCab 2, assuming you turn the dynamics knob in Recabinet down. Both are pretty transparent so long as the settings are the same.

 

[bryan_kilco]

Yes, I am loading the same impulse file. Regarding the loader settings, it's quite difficult to actually have the same settings, as keFIR has so few options (you only have 3 buttons and one is the volume).

The sound coming out of keFIR was grainy/digital and not so good in general. I had a big improvement using the same impulse file in Recabinet with the default settings. Playing with the Recabinet settings do change the tone, but I can't change them in such a way that I get a tone close to what keFIR was doing.

It seemed logical to me that a free (and old) software would not be as good as Recabinet.

It's just that I read from different places that changing the "Loader" should not affect the tone. Yet it did...

Also, LeCab 2 didn't work for me. I had serious lag issues using Reaper. Plus I couldn't find a 64bits version.

You can run 32-bit plug-ins in 64 bit Reaper. And 1 instance of LeCab shouldn't give you that much trouble. What's your buffer size on your interface?

Sounds like you need to upgrade your recording machine. Specs?

 

[H-evolve]

I've found little difference between Recabinet and LeCab 2, assuming you turn the dynamics knob in Recabinet down. Both are pretty transparent so long as the settings are the same.

So it could be the dynamic knob from Recabinet that creates the different with the free cabs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but none of the common free loader (LeCab 2, keFIR and Boogex) have that dynamic knob setting. Which would explain the difference...

 

[H-evolve]

You can run 32-bit plug-ins in 64 bit Reaper. And 1 instance of LeCab shouldn't give you that much trouble. What's your buffer size on your interface?

Sounds like you need to upgrade your recording machine. Specs?

Well, I don't have a super computer, but it's not bad.

Windows 7 64bits,
16 Gb RAM,
i7-2600 (if I recall, I'm not on my home computer right now).

Recabinet, keFIR, I have 0 problem. As for LeCab 2, the lag I was talking about is not "during" recording, it's when I try to listen to what I have already recorded. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I'm using the minimum buffer that I can use on the interface, which I think is 1 ms... Does this make sense? (Sorry, as I said, I'm not home right now...)

I did read somewhere other people having issue using LeCab 2 with Reaper. Could be a problem only some people have...

 

[DullElysium]

Ignite amps have a zero latency IR loader.

I haven't compared any but there might be some differences on how the plugins handle the IR's

 

[H-evolve]

Well then, the other question would be : do you think that buying Recabinet is worth it? To me, it clearly seems like it is, after just some few tests. I guess that "Dynamic Knob" really makes the sound "nicer/warmer", or less "digital" when you try to use high gain ampsim.

Not only to mention that the IR coming with it seem quite nice. I just can't find any IR that sound good when I load them with keFIR. Perhaps I could try loading the LeCab2 IRs using keFIR, since I can't seem to make LeCab work.

 

[deLuther]

KeFIR has great quality and zero latency, but high CPU consumption (because direct convolution), just don`t forget to set Mix to 100%, very close to convolution in mathematical software.
LeCabs does not have zero latency, and far from "ideal" convolution.
NadIR is good on CPU, zero latency, but it is problematic to compare due to low- and high-pass filters.

 

[Pickasso]

Kefir is also affected by the Reaper project's sample rate, the others are not!
In other words, if you have Reaper set at 48khz, then you load an impulse saved at 44.1 khz, it will sound different than the same impulse loaded in any of the other loaders. Try it, save your impulse at many different sample rates, then load it on Kefir- some will sound different from each other. They will always sound the same in the other loaders regardless of sample rate.

Ignite Nadir is great, man. Less cpu than Recab for me, loads impulses very fast
compared to Kefir and Lecab. Super simple to use:
http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins

Recabinet is cool, I don't think you'll regret it at all if you buy it, just use Nadir more often here.

 

[deLuther]

KeFIR does not have resampling, so, of course, it will have unexpected sound when samplerates of project and impulse are different. In many cases is better to resample impulse yourself rather than rely on IR loader resampling (if plugin has it), general rule is same samplerate.

 

[H-evolve]

Kefir is also affected by the Reaper project's sample rate, the others are not!
In other words, if you have Reaper set at 48khz, then you load an impulse saved at 44.1 khz, it will sound different than the same impulse loaded in any of the other loaders. Try it, save your impulse at many different sample rates, then load it on Kefir- some will sound different from each other. They will always sound the same in the other loaders regardless of sample rate.

Ignite Nadir is great, man. Less cpu than Recab for me, loads impulses very fast
compared to Kefir and Lecab. Super simple to use:
http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins

Recabinet is cool, I don't think you'll regret it at all if you buy it, just use Nadir more often here.

Oh thank you I'll try this, didn't think of that. But, by "Reaper being at 48kHz", do you talk about the rate at which I record my track? If so, I think I don't set it in Reaper, but set it in my interface instead. So it's the interface that drives the rate in my case...

Unless I mix things up...!

 

[Pxz]

Voxengo pristine space always sounded better to me than all the rest impulse loaders.Maybe is something on the impulse lenght but i dont know for sure what it is.

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

Voxengo pristine space always sounded better to me than all the rest impulse loaders.Maybe is something on the impulse lenght but i dont know for sure what it is.

Someone did a comparison chart a while ago between different Impulse loaders and theoretically based on the data pristine space should be the best. But personally I've used it and still went back to Reaverb. When I'm not using reaverb I use SIR2.

 

[deLuther]

Voxengo pristine space always sounded better to me than all the rest impulse loaders.Maybe is something on the impulse lenght but i dont know for sure what it is.

Yes, maximum precision. But, honestly, difference between KeFIR and PS (with the same IR length) is beyond D/A converters capabilities

 

[deLuther]

Someone did a comparison chart a while ago between different Impulse loaders and theoretically based on the data pristine space should be the best.

Maybe you mean my comparison:

 

[Terminus]

NadIR is good on CPU, zero latency, but it is problematic to compare due to low- and high-pass filters.

Aren't those optional? I never use them.

 

[deLuther]

Aren't those optional? I never use them.

Optional, but can not be switched off entirely, you can only set to lowest and highest values, but effect still exists, so it`s impossible to compare directly to PS or SIR2 etc. (same thing with Overloud TH2 IR loader that included in the table). It`s not bad, just not right to compare statistically.