In your opinion is cultural genocide as serious as physical genocide?

Both of them are equally serious, but I think physical genocide is slightly less serious. People are still there, and there will be part of their culture left behind, and once their opposition is stopped there can be a recovery.

unfortunately, cultural genocide is being accepted by many people now, as the "war on terror". it's disgusting how peaceful americans muslims will be attacked for their religion now. the government is spearheading [currently] incomplete cultural genocide. public schools are trying to teach that this is OK, while saying racism is wrong.
 
well the reason i brought it up is because i was thinking about, say, major record labels, and how their manipulation of popular culture is at the same time oppressive- as a specific example, the group of popular bands that play 'heavy music' have served to define heavy music, in the public's eye. Meanwhile thousands of bands who play heavy music are misrepresented, which causes their culture to dwindle and become an irrelevant reference point.

Basically what could be a culturally enriched society is being repressed by a few individuals in power, hence their deliberate homogenization of the market and abuse of power for personal ends should be a punishable crime.
 
on the flip side, the proliferation of indie labels and the ease of creating CDs has made non-major label artists easier than ever to be disseminated. plus the internet allows someone to research music and not be at the pure mercy (or lack thereof) of the major labels.

example: it would be hard for me to imagine my ever knowing motW or Kayo Dot existed ten years ago, unless perhaps I lived in Boston.

the majors still control too much, tho. fuckers. and they;re all in bed with the major broadcast companies like clearchannel.
 
It is as serioous but it is inevitable in any society. Because society makes some ground rules in places there is bound to have a law limiting some cultural practices. We had a big fuss in Montreal because some Afghan kids have to wear a Khiber knife for religious purposes all the time and the schools didn't like it (obviously, would you like your kid go to school with a 9 year old carrying a 5 inch blade knife all the time?) In any case the solution was a compromise in that they wore the damn thing but tightly covered with cloth that the teachers would check from time to time to see if the kid didn't try to take out the said knife out.

Having that said, a compromise is still conforming to some of other cultural identity because you live there and is likely to dampen your cultural identity. The whole Quebec separatist movement is based on cultural identity and the fact that we do not want to lose the french culture while we surrounded by anglo-saxons. There is also a flawed financial argument but I won't go there. The result of this desire to keep our cultural identity is pretty giving a hard time to other culture to flourish here with a lot of restrictions in advertising, schools and a lot of other stuff. So in trying to keep you identity alive you in fact opress the other.

While it is not morally correct to do so , it is impossible to prevent because the minute you want to enforce somekind cultural regulation ( be it you promote your own culture or try to keep it intact) you perform a small part in the genocide of another, or many other culture.
 
lizard said:
the majors still control too much, tho. fuckers. and they;re all in bed with the major broadcast companies like clearchannel.
Most of them just ARE the broadcast companies. The problem is simply the concentration of press. Three or four (if you consider Viacom) huge conglomerate control every goddamn press in the US and since everybody seem to take their cue on the US culturally for the past 20 some years, well everybody is getting fed the same crap. When the same people who control the press also control the product it is bound to have an impact...
 
i would say underground metal isn't repressed by mainstream culture because most people in underground metal don't give a shit about mainstream culture.
 
yeah, it's the endless mergers/deregulation that are the source of the latest ruin in music/entertainment. they are struggling to keep up with a changing world that needs them less and less. in the end, it's all about distribution and promotion, nothing more.
 
FuSoYa said:
how their manipulation of popular culture is at the same time oppressive

That remark reminds me of an interview I read with Dälek, who was saying how all those "bling-bling" bitches n' blunts type of hip-hop artists perpetuated racist stereotypes across the country, which I totally agree with. Imagine the arevage small-town american who's never seen a black man in person getting his cultural education from watching MTV. Scary. :erk:

About cultural genocide in general though, I do agree that in the long run it can be more damaging than simple... death :) I mean if half a people are annihilated, the other half might grow stronger from it generations later. When I see Aboriginals already fucked up at 9am in the streets of my town, I can't help but think of those boarding schools whose primary purpose was to completely uproot Aboriginals, effectively depriving them of their identity, their culture, etc. There's no way of healing that now.
 
mindspell said:
Please explain...


While it is not morally correct to do so , it is impossible to prevent because the minute you want to enforce somekind cultural regulation ( be it you promote your own culture or try to keep it intact) you perform a small part in the genocide of another, or many other culture.


re: the vargish return to pure germanicism in norway; just jokes, simon.
 
It really depends on what you mean by cultural genocide, so the answer could be "there's nothing wrong with cultural genocide" or "there's everything wrong with cultural genocide".

The important thing to remember is that you can't kill a human's culture--we're too resilient. You can only change it. African-Americans lost their African culture, but have develoepd arguably one of the most complex, interesting, and rich cultures I can think of to take its place. That's just what humans do.

And the end of certain cultural practises isn't even necessarily bad. Cultures change on their own and are even in part defined by their changes, even when those changes are forced by outside forces. Integral to the American culture is the theme of redemption from forcibly ending slavery culture, for example.

In the end, what's worse than cultural genocide is an adherence to cultural purity. This was the central facet of Naziism and it's entirely inhuman. What yuo're essentially doing is taking a moment in time, crystallizing it, saying that your culture always has to be exactly like this, and attacking everyone who doesn't abide by it. It's unnatural and anti-human to prevent cultures from growing and changing and, because the end or mutation of some practises is the CENTRAL way cultures grow and change, to even go to extraordinary lengths to prevent the end/change of some practises is horrendous. The French separatists in Quebec are an example of this .

A culture that doesn't accept change stagnates and doesn't grow, learn, and become better as time passes (as human cultures naturally do). What if the United States had made a law at its founding that everybody within its borders had to speak English or be expelled? Or that tri-cornered hats were an immutable part of American culture and everybody had to wear them forever and ever amen? How much of our current culture would we have lost? (although we wouldn't have the trucker-hat problem)

The Germans tried to protect their Wagnerian culture with laws that decreed new forms of art and music "Jewish" and poisonous to the Aryan ideal. Abstract the "Jewish" excuse from there and you still have a culture trying to destroy innovation and prevent itself from naturally changing and growing.

Okay, there's certainly times it goes too far. Saddam Hussein's campaign against the Kurds wasn't just physical. He forced Kurds to name their children Arab, not Kurdish names; he even plowed under tombstones in Kurdish cemetaries that did not have Arabic names. This was all in an effort to ethnically cleanse the Kurdish people and replace them with Arabs.

That's an extreme example, but it's a genuine instance in which cultural genocide is wrong. The danger in our world is the Nazi-ish desire to cry "cultural genocide!" and make laws to protect aspects of your culture that are changing or even being changed from outside naturally.

(and to answer the question, sort of what Avi said: physical genocide is much more serious, because people can always recover from cultural genocide and incorporate the harsh attempts to destroy their culture into their new culture. those Kurds cleansed by Saddam lost their Kurdish names, but that just became a part of their Kurdish culture. culture's too tough to wipe out completely just by outlawing some of its silly practises, like wearing an Afghan knife or bringing something blue to a wedding--it just changes a little)
 
But in a sense, what the major media corporations are practicing is in fact the "culture trying to destroy innovation and prevent itself from naturally changing and growing" like you mentioned!
 
in terms of opinion i can see why most people would say that physical genocide were worse. but i dont think it's appropriate to say 'it just is worse no matter what/who/where/when'.

so toby's point is valid. because, after all, if all other kinds of genocidal violence / other forms of violence in that sense stopped... what would be considered violence next?
 
Yes, I think those major media corporations fill a similar traditionalist conservative role that Quebecoise separatists and Nazi Germans did--to try to preserve the old order by any means necessary, be it laws, money, killing, whatever.
 
I think it would be interesting to try to bring them to trial. Though it'd probably be seen as a publicity stunt which would suck - I'd seriously consider it if I wasn't in a band. However, if a group of people did it, now I'd be into that.

That would be totally amazing if we won. Maybe we should get some more people (smart ones) and do it?