Embracing Genocide

[anathematized_one]

i brought natures selection up since you talked about evolution and the stronger always survives. i'm just saying that your or mine perception of a strong person, might not be the same in natures eyes.

and i'm kind of curious, IF we decide that we need to kill a bunch of people that does nothing to our society, on what conditions do we make that desicion? do we decide this in grades in school? or salary? IQ-test? or those in prison? the convicted? how do we do this without killing someone that is actually to societys benefit? how do we know that the people voting makes the decision that the human race would benefit most from?

I already covered that point in my very first post - I said the standards would be chosen BY EVERYONE, it would be a "FAIR" choice. We can't know that the voting would make the right choices, but it still would make everything better overall, in theory, which I already also gave some points on. Let me give you actual, factual proof. Who won the space race? Russia. Why? They're a communist nation, and as such, the people working on the project knew if they lost, they'd be killed. You honestly don't think the threat of death isn't a motivator? I could go find thousands of stories about how people did things they never thought they could just because they had a gun to their head.

and how do WE know that we benefit more from making our own "natures selection" and not go with the ones already given by nature? if "survival of the fittest" worked before, why change a winning concept?

Because it's not survival of the fittest anymore, it's the fittest supporting the weakest.

 

[anathematized_one]

i've also thought of this, but going through countries and killing those that are not "up to par" would of course cause tons of controversy and most likely, war.

the only way that we could actually do something about population is to make a 1-2 child limit and cut down on funding to countries in poverty which, i would have no problem with

It's less about the population problem - I just stated that as just one more reason for supporting it.

Of course, the standards for different countries would be different. For example, Africa isn't going to be held to the same standards as say, The United States of America.

Each country would choose it's own standards, so there would be no war between countries over the problem of "it's not fair, we're behind you guys."

 

[derek]

You deserve the ad homs flung at you. Even engaging in this would be pointless indulgence.

 

[Bulldozer]

I said the standards would be chosen BY EVERYONE, it would be a "FAIR" choice.

Actually, to call it FAIR is to go over the top. And no, it would not be chosen by EVERYONE, since not everyone would vote. Probably because it's pretty stupid.

but it still would make everything better overall, in theory

Depends on what theory you're thinking about. How about the mass psychosis and suicide rates that probably would go up the roof? People who are voted the "good ones" and gets to survive, what about how their mental health is affected by all this? What happens if your voting system kill everyone in his or her family? There are far greater consequenses to this than just making a bunch of people die or disappear.

You honestly don't think the threat of death isn't a motivator?

I never said that. I just think it's not a very good one.

I could go find thousands of stories about how people did things they never thought they could just because they had a gun to their head.

Yes, but does that automatically make it a good option?

 

[razoredge]

for some reason reading these posts makes me feel like I'm on an acid trip.

A proposal with no foundation, logic or apparent goal

Then theirs the obsurd information. Russia got into orbit sooner due to the threat of death against their smartest scientists ? Yaright. It was a matter of chance and I highly doubt they would have "killed" their scientists... unless you are suggesting Russians are inherently stupid...........

I'm getting ready to make an age inquiry

 

[anathematized_one]

for some reason reading these posts makes me feel like I'm on an acid trip.

A proposal with no foundation, logic or apparent goal

Then theirs the obsurd information. Russia got into orbit sooner due to the threat of death against their smartest scientists ? Yaright. It was a matter of chance and I highly doubt they would have "killed" their scientists... unless you are suggesting Russians are inherently stupid...........

I'm getting ready to make an age inquiry

I'm 21.

I'm getting ready to wonder why this is SUPPOSED to be an intelligent forum, where there is to be logical debate, yet all I get is ostracized for my ideas, where nobody simply just disagrees and states why, but instead, childishly tries to attack me and ridicule me.

 

[Vimana]

A better alternative is to prevent the "unworthy" from being able to reproduce. But of course that would cost a lot of money. The thing is we need more unintelligent people more than we need intelligent people.

 

[derek]

Underscore all of this with a question regarding practicality and your theory falls flat on its face. Who decides? Surely it cannot be applied globally, even with country specific regulations? Would you still support it even if you were included in the group suitable for being put to death?

No, no and no.

You're approaching a worthy idea (eugenics) from the wrong end. Mass slaughter is not the answer. It's been tried, and failed.

I think you're being attacked childishly because your theory is somewhat childish. Embrace the mass slaughter of everyone deemed (by some abstract, unworkable and ridiculous institution) unworthy? I'll reject it because it's nonsense.

 

[razoredge]

I'm 21.

I'm getting ready to wonder why this is SUPPOSED to be an intelligent forum, where there is to be logical debate, yet all I get is ostracized for my ideas, where nobody simply just disagrees and states why, but instead, childishly tries to attack me and ridicule me.

That is because there is no foundation or defined goal to your own crazy proposal. I presented what I felt about your problem with those that dont try in school, what the hell does being a book worm have to do with ones contribution to society. In all fairness I find many book worms to be lazy and physically inept, as well as showing no signs of independent thought, or logical evaluation. Do you have any idea how this world came to be ? You think it was singularly the educated ? You think that is the only value of man ? Better look around, I find value in all kinds of people. Better look around at the people that have totally screwed thing up, guess what they were educated and held high power.

I presented a proposal, radical as it is, it is far less discriminating than yours and I showed a basis for making such determinations. Our out of control population boom is at the root of our problems, I showed fair incentive to be a good person and a contributer to society, without placing an across the board, these kind of people have to go... because they are "white trash" or dont do good in school. Get real, I have seen all kinds pull themselves out of what ever situation they were born into and I have seen those born well turn into the biggest loosers.

The idea is not to kill the living but control the rate at which the population grows and to make those with their hands out work for what they get. As for criminal, we need to stop feeling sorry for them and making their lifes as sweet as possible... to the tune of how many dollars a year? I believe it is somewhere around the income of 3 working class citizens that didnt try in school, you would like to terminate.

Everybody gets a vote ? Guess what, everyone is dead. Ever heard of a civil war, good way to start one.

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

The previous mechanisms of natural selection still work, it is just that socialism in the guise of the welfare state has halted them. To an extent, we are in agreement: culling the weak and stupid is a necessary natural process. If all adopted the philosophy of Ayn Rand, we would all be better off...except for the dum-dums of course, but what will they do about it?

 

[razoredge]

In the old natural selection you would be one of the first to die, possibly naturally but most like "by accident", oops! geeks and dweebs had a low survival rate and those with lips... well...

 

[Blowtus]

I'm 21.

I'm getting ready to wonder why this is SUPPOSED to be an intelligent forum, where there is to be logical debate, yet all I get is ostracized for my ideas, where nobody simply just disagrees and states why, but instead, childishly tries to attack me and ridicule me.

Well, when you don't even know *why* this result you are after is good, you don't leave much room for intelligent discussion.

Yes, we have the power to alter natural selections selection criteria, and the course of evolution. We do it frequently with modern medicine, as an extended life span is held to be a valuable result with few negatives. Murder is pretty much the complete opposite direction of the way society as a whole elects to go. You'd do well to have a good reason.

edit: I propose a course of extermination for all right handed people - that way, only the left handers will be able to breed, furthering the cause of the Left Handers. Why this cause matters is irrelevant of course, it just *does*!

 

[razoredge]

Well, when you don't even know *why* this result you are after is good, you don't leave much room for intelligent discussion.

Yes, we have the power to alter natural selections selection criteria, and the course of evolution. We do it frequently with modern medicine, as an extended life span is held to be a valuable result with few negatives. Murder is pretty much the complete opposite direction of the way society as a whole elects to go. You'd do well to have a good reason.

I agree with you here and understand your point but wanted to point out

with modern medicine, as an extended life span is held to be a valuable result with few negatives.

often said health care costs exceed that of a given persons life earnings, which could be OK from the viewpoint that that is why insurance has been paid. Then, turn around and we have a serious insurance and healthcare problem, at least in America today. Then turn that around and that is OK because it provides alot of people with work that would otherwise be useless to society and "need culling"

such a quandary

 

[Einherjar86]

I'm 21.

I'm getting ready to wonder why this is SUPPOSED to be an intelligent forum, where there is to be logical debate, yet all I get is ostracized for my ideas, where nobody simply just disagrees and states why, but instead, childishly tries to attack me and ridicule me.

A lot of people have posed very excellent questions to you, which you've neglected to answer. Maybe you should get on that. When you start a topic like this you should be prepared to have your ideas tossed about, questioned, and torn apart. Don't whine about it. Just argue your point.

 

[viewerfromnihil]

In the old natural selection you would be one of the first to die, possibly naturally but most like "by accident", oops! geeks and dweebs had a low survival rate and those with lips... well...

maybe you're not grasping the concept razor, it's the old style of natural selection in a modern world.

he's not proposing to only let geeks and nerds live, he was suggesting, "what if we got rid of those who contribute nothing to society?" when asking how mature someone is or asking how old they are, try not to act like a 12 year old

 

[Vimana]

We shouldn't kill them. Just do the procedures needed to keep them from reproducing. That way no one gets killed. All we do is find the people and say "hey, free muffin" and then they wake up unable to have children.

 

[razoredge]

maybe you're not grasping the concept razor, it's the old style of natural selection in a modern world.
when asking how mature someone is or asking how old they are, try not to act like a 12 year old

theres far more you arent grasping but I wouldnt waste my time on it, I have many long posts already that mustta went over your head

when telling me what to do, which isnt a good idea in the first place.... try not to show your age

 

[razoredge]

A lot of people have posed very excellent questions to you, which you've neglected to answer. Maybe you should get on that. When you start a topic like this you should be prepared to have your ideas tossed about, questioned, and torn apart. Don't whine about it. Just argue your point.

^What he said

Yes, While I was being rough on your notion dont take it to heart or get upset, think and restructure or something.

 

[razoredge]

We shouldn't kill them. Just do the procedures needed to keep them from reproducing. That way no one gets killed. All we do is find the people and say "hey, free muffin" and then they wake up unable to have children.

It has to be non discriminating control across the board, with a reducing and controlled population and actions taken to proper problems this would all work itself out.

But yes control before the fact does not equal murder, it equals people having to make intellegent choices or live with their compulsions

 

[SentinelSlain]

I don't know if anyone will pay attention to this but whatever.

I don't think using nature, or your perception of 'nature' as if were somehow a role model for us. Animals do a lot of things that would make most humans hair curl (well mine already is...), incest etc, patricide blah blah...

The thing about survival of the fittest is that that is exactly how it does work in a limited number of cultures, for humans. They are stronger, they can climb trees, kill animals with a blow pipe etc etc, the thing is, they aren't animals, they are making the best out of their situation and they (or they have the ability to be) empathetic and caring towards one another. If you see that as a weakness then I give up.

I personally see a fair society as a much more important goal than some people getting just a little bit more because they fucking killed the poor people.

It's an obvious part of being a human that, circumstances allowing, looking after the group is a priority.