Intersample clipping

[Via Noctis]

I have a curious question for you mastering guys. I searched every possible combination of terms on all sites I can think of. Maybe I am missing something, but when I master a mix that has no clipping on it. Run it through either ozone 5 advanced or fg-x. No matter what I put the output level at on the limiter. I usually go -0.3 but have gone farther. When I put it in either afclip or TL Mastermeter it shows clipping. What gives? I don't think I am pushing it too hard. Not able to post a clip right now, just wondering if there is something obvious that I am missing. Thanks.

 

[Sloan]

Can you hear the clipping?

 

[RedDog]

Post a clip of the clip that doesn't seem to clip. If the clip clips, and it clips audibly, raise your clipper. But if the clip didn't clip to your ears, clip your hair behind your head and give the clip another shot.

 

[mva801]

What exactly is afclip?

Are you adding anything after your limiter which could be raising the volume past -0.3??

It shouldn't be showing red lights unless you have something turning it up I would think....

 

[Mashreef]

What exactly is afclip?

Are you adding anything after your limiter which could be raising the volume past -0.3??

It shouldn't be showing red lights unless you have something turning it up I would think....

^ This

 

[B36arin]

It shouldn't be showing red lights, but to prevent inter-sample clipping you need to turn it down more than to a -0.3dB ceiling. Inter-sample clipping depends on the DA conversion, so it's inaudible in most high-end mastering studios. But it a problem with consumer grade CD players etc. Most albums have it nowadays...

 

[mairomaster]

^ That.

 

[Via Noctis]

What exactly is afclip?

Are you adding anything after your limiter which could be raising the volume past -0.3??

It shouldn't be showing red lights unless you have something turning it up I would think....

Thanks for the replies. No I don't hear any audible distortion. I don't have any red lights. Just shows clipping in TL mastermeter and afclip. afclip is a terminal code for mastered for itunes. You drag and drop a file into it and it shows if it has clipping. I'll post a sample in a minute.

 

[Via Noctis]

Here is a short clip.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/978613/Clip.wav

 

[rfahey86]

You definitely have some clipping going on there........

 

[Via Noctis]

Ok, so then I guess the question is, why doesn't it show clipping on my meters in fg-x dsp quattro. or the fader meter in pro tools upon export.

What do you guys set your ceiling at?

 

[Old Man Doom]

I'm having a similar problem. I have a t-racks clipper pushing about 7-8db of gain and a TB barricade, barely getting any gain reduction in the mastering chain. My ceiling is set at -1.0, to avoid the red on my output, yet I still get some audible clipping in certain areas. I don't notice it through my headphones, but it is especially noticeable through other commercial speakers (stereos, laptop speaker, etc.).

 

[RedDog]

Watch what your low end is doing. Sharp transients and low end buildup plagued my mixes. Then I revised my monitoring situation.

 

[B36arin]

It shouldn't be showing red lights, but to prevent inter-sample clipping you need to turn it down more than to a -0.3dB ceiling. Inter-sample clipping depends on the DA conversion, so it's inaudible in most high-end mastering studios. But it a problem with consumer grade CD players etc. Most albums have it nowadays...

I can add that I've been in the studio of a very well respected metal mastering engineer, and listening through his monitoring chain I could clearly hear the inter-sample clipping on an album which I otherwise consider to sound absolutely fantastic. People don't really care nowadays, which is a shame.

 

[Via Noctis]

I can add that I've been in the studio of a very well respected metal mastering engineer, and listening through his monitoring chain I could clearly hear the inter-sample clipping on an album which I otherwise consider to sound absolutely fantastic. People don't really care nowadays, which is a shame.

One of the first clients that I had mixed for sent it out to get mastered. After I heard how it sounded professionally mastered every band I have had here since I request that they do the same. I tell them if they want me to do it I will but I prefer they went somewhere. No one other than the first band has ever sent it out. So when I master it I always try to go a bit quieter, but the first thing the client always says is "I listened to it with other commercial albums and ours just doesn't seem loud enough"

I should also mention that I put a song in pro tools by The Acacia Strain and All That Remains and both also showed intersample clipping in Izotope insight and Tl master meter... So I guess like you said people don't care now days.

 

[B36arin]

One of the first clients that I had mixed for sent it out to get mastered. After I heard how it sounded professionally mastered every band I have had here since I request that they do the same. I tell them if they want me to do it I will but I prefer they went somewhere. No one other than the first band has ever sent it out. So when I master it I always try to go a bit quieter, but the first thing the client always says is "I listened to it with other commercial albums and ours just doesn't seem loud enough"

I should also mention that I put a song in pro tools by The Acacia Strain and All That Remains and both also showed intersample clipping in Izotope insight and Tl master meter... So I guess like you said people don't care now days.

When I'm producing/engineering and it's a serious project I always state straight away that it has to be mastered by a mastering engineer, I won't do it myself. Seriously, mastering with world class engineers is so cheap that neglecting it is just plain stupid(unless you're a really top class engineer and can master the stuff to it's full potential yourself - there are very few of those). If it's a crap band that's trying to save money or a demo then fair enough, but if people spend money on hiring me for a serious production they're idiots if they don't want to spend money on proper mastering. Having said that, I've never received an album back which has been completely free of inter-sample distortion, and I've always ended up being happy with the master...

People are so preoccupied by loudness nowadays, and most listeners are listening through iPod headphones. I don't care about intersample clipping myself unless I'm listening through a really good system, so why would your average consumer/band care?

I've been stuck with audio work so much lately that I'm not really putting on any metal when I get home, I've been sticking to classical music lately, and the dynamics in great classical recordings are just something else... Fair enough, most metal stuff DOES benefit from heavy compression and limiting, but the norm today is to push it a dB or two too far...