Intonating Problems

[Imbow]

So I have some problems with intonation on my low E string. I use a ESP Standard Series Viper with stock bridge, string gauge is 12, 16, 20, 38, 52, 60. I can tune all but the low E string perfectly, my problem is when I pick the octave of the low E string, it's too sharp. So I have moved the saddle all the way back to lengthen the string, but it's still WAY too sharp!
I have searched the internet a bit, and my own conclusion it's because the strings are too fat?

Can someone please help me, or explain me what I can do?

 

[Imbow]

You could try taking the saddle out and turning it the opposite direction.

Already thought of that, but judging by how little the changes I make do to the tone now, I doubt that little extra room will help. :s

Will other adjustments, such as the truss rod, bridge height/action have any effect on the intonation?
If not I guess using a smaller gauge will solve the problem, 'cause I had no problems with gauge .11-.54 besides the string could be a bit sloppy for that tuning.

Im playing in Drop B flat, any recommendations on the gauge thickness of the low E string for this tuning?

 

[Paulie!]

In drop tunings, the low "E" string tends to go sharp when you fret it... so I tune mine slightly flat to compensate... but this may only apply to floating trems.. haven't had a fixed bridge in years so I don't know...

How fresh are the strings? And also, if you're having no problems with a .54 you could buy singles of your preferred brand and use a .54 on top vs the .60

 

[MetalSound]

get yourself a guitar with a long scale. 24,75" sucks for low tunings. (what is your tuning by the way?)
there is a reason why baritones were invented although it´s really awful to play them.
you could also try to use a different string brand. maybe this could give better results.

 

[Imbow]

How fresh are the strings? And also, if you're having no problems with a .54 you could buy singles of your preferred brand and use a .54 on top vs the .60

Strings are only a few days 'old'. But i'll probably buy that single string then. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Melb_shredder]

agreed on that 24.75" is really hard to intonate at low tunings. Judging by your guage, Drop C/ B??? You're going to struggle I think given that scale length. Neck adjustments WILL make a difference, but it really depends on how much you know about necks etc. I suggest taking it to a pro and be done with it

 

[Imbow]

agreed on that 24.75" is really hard to intonate at low tunings. Judging by your guage, Drop C/ B??? You're going to struggle I think given that scale length. Neck adjustments WILL make a difference, but it really depends on how much you know about necks etc. I suggest taking it to a pro and be done with it

I might take it to a pro and see what he can do. But I know some .56 gauge will work, though I would prefer some higher tension strings to play in Drop b flat. Read somewhere it could be the strings that doesnt sit very well on the ESP saddles, because they were too fat. I don't know, man this is getting frustrating!

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

I might take it to a pro and see what he can do. But I know some .56 gauge will work, though I would prefer some higher tension strings to play in Drop b flat. Read somewhere it could be the strings that doesnt sit very well on the ESP saddles, because they were too fat. I don't know, man this is getting frustrating!

This is my theory...

If the string is too fat to sit in the saddle, then it's resting on the sharp edges of the saddle. This will bite in to the string and grip it tightly.

If you try and adjust the intonation, all you are actually doing is stretching the string, not moving the saddle independently from the string.

So yeah, if that's the case, perhaps you should look in to widening the saddle using a fine file?

If you mess it up, a new saddle will still cost you a lot less that a pro setting it up!

Good luck. By no means take my advice as gospel, I've just sat here pondering it for a bit and it makes sense to me

 

[Melb_shredder]

oh.... sorry! You're using the standard saddles on a tune-o-matic kind of bridge right? My first suggestion, get a roller bridge, they are amazing! Look them up
if not, get the correct file for this sort of job and DIY, I did with mine, intonates just fine

 

[Machinated]

adjusting truss rod and string height will affect intonation, see if that helps.

 

[Imbow]

So I have tried to file it down a bit, but it didn't help. But after some more researching I believe it might be the string/strings that can be deffective. It's DR DDT 12, 16, 20, 38, 52, 60 and apparently a lot of people experience inconssistencies with this brand, even on strings from a brand new box.

 

[Notuern]

So I have tried to file it down a bit, but it didn't help. But after some more researching I believe it might be the string/strings that can be deffective. It's DR DDT 12, 16, 20, 38, 52, 60 and apparently a lot of people experience inconssistencies with this brand, even on strings from a brand new box.

.. ive always used DR's, never had any problems what so ever.
They are the worlds only hand spun strings with insane quality controlls, so i find it odd that you would have a bad set.

But its a common problem with downtuning.
And did you file the saddle? If so, i would suggest that you get a new one(Because it needs to be filed in the right angles etc.. its much harded then you think.).

How is the neck? Because 90% of the time when there isnt enough room for intonating the guitar its because of a bad relief setup on the neck.
Remember, the distance you can move the saddle doesnt have a linear effect on the intonation.

Lets say you move the saddle 1mm in one direction, and it makes a 1 cent difference at the 12th fret.. the next 1mm might make a 5 cent difference at the 12th fret, so it sounds a bit odd that its not enough room(Even though i have seen it quite allot on cheap guitars.).

Can you post a picture of the bridge so that i can see how big differences you have in your intonation adjustment on the individual strings?

 

[Machinated]

that reminds me that the last time i restrung i had one string that was fucked, its intonation was WAY out with what it was normally at. tried everything to get it sorted, and on the off chance tried a new string and instantly the problem was gone.

 

[Notuern]

Yeah, it might be a bad string, so its definitly worth trying.. but ive used DR's for years without meeting one. o,0

 

[ratsapprentice]

Lets say you move the saddle 1mm in one direction, and it makes a 1 cent difference at the 12th fret.. the next 1mm might make a 5 cent difference at the 12th fret, so it sounds a bit odd that its not enough room(Even though i have seen it quite allot on cheap guitars.).
QUOTE]

Pat Obrien had to file down the saddle on his low Bb in order to move it further back to get it to intonate properly.
Which is the same tuning as this guy, and that was a bc rich V, so the same short scale as well.
I think the thing you have to remember is that guitars this short aren't supposed to be tuned this low. As annoying as it is, you WILL have issues.