Iron Maiden

[ND Mike]

So we recently went out on tour back in Feb. While driving across Europe trying to kill what felt like endless hours worth of time, the conversation inevitably turned to Iron Maiden. As some of you probably know, I play bass in an Iron Maiden/Judas Priest tribute band named Judas Beast so it is understandable that my views and opinions about Iron Maiden may be slightly skewed but I was shocked to find myself nearly crucified by the other guys for believing that Somewhere in Time and Seventh Son of a Seventh Son are just as classic (to me) and awesome as Iron Maiden, Killers, Number of the Beast, Piece of Mind and Powerslave. Now I always thought that I was a little bit of a Maiden snob because my cut-off point for classic maiden is No Prayer for the Dying. Everything up to No Prayer was awesome but from No Prayer on, the catalog gets pretty weak. (No Prayer and Fear of the Dark definitely have their moments of coolness but are overall pretty weak IMO) I wont even get into the Blaze era or beyond yet. We'll save that for further discussion in this thread.

I'm wondering how most of you feel about Maiden in general and Somewhere in Time and 7th Son in particular. Are these two albums just as classic as the earlier albums? Help me prove to the other guys that I'm not just a hopeless Maiden fan-boy. (Of course, maybe that's exactly what I am)

Either way, San Dimas High School Football Rules!!!

 

[Jasonic]

I remember vividly when Seventh Son came out.
It caused an uproar amongst Maiden fans, as it contained longer and more epic songs than previous efforts.

At the time it came out, I was primarily into thrash, where my boom box was dominated by Kreator, VoiVod, Slayer, Vio-Lence, Motorhead, etc, etc. I remember buying the cassette, listening to it once or twice, and that's about it.

I didn't rediscover this album again until about 10 years later in the late 90s, when I got more back into Maiden with Bruce's return (Ed Hunter era).

That being said, I personally, esp now after being into SO many genres of metal, fully appreciate the brilliance that is Seventh Son. I mean, you certainly can not compare an album like that to the S/T or Killers. Just WAY too different in sound.

When it came out, I definitely preferred Somewhere in Time, but today listen to Seventh Son quite regularly, as opposed to SIT which has never even made the conversion from CD to my IPOD yet.

The Clairvoyant is definitely in my top 10 fav Maiden tunes of all time list.

It was an album ahead of its time. Most cult and epic metal albums such as that were ahead of its time, and not fully appreciated until years later.

I won't go into my views on the rest of Maiden's catalog, since Mike wants to initially focus on SIT VS SSOASS.

 

[Jasonic]

I think I'm a bit of an oddball:

My two favorite Maiden albums of the 80s: s/t and Seventh Son

My two least favorite Maiden albums of the 80s: Powerslave and Somewhere in Time


I really like Dance of Death and The X Factor.

Powerslave will always hold a special place in my heart, as my first concert ever was Maiden on the World Slavery Tour. I think it is a damn near flawless album, but just my opinion.

I too like both Dance of Death and X Factor.
For the Y2K and beyond Maiden, I think Brave New World is the best.

 

[ND Mike]

I think I'm a bit of an oddball:

My two favorite Maiden albums of the 80s: s/t and Seventh Son.

That is quite an oddball combination but they are both good choices none the less. I can't really choose favorites amongst the first 7 studio albums. I love them all more or less equally. I suppose this was the heart of the issue that shocked everyone. (That I could say that 7th Son was just as good as Number of the Beast, etc...) I have sentimental favorites that may remind me of certain times or places in my life but musically, I'm just as content listening to any one of those albums as I am listening to the others.

I can't really stomach the Blaze era Maiden. The songs are decent but the production quality and Blaze's vocal abilities really sour me on those albums. The Blaze songs that were performed live with Bruce are far superior to the originals. Of the 3 new Bruce albums, I have to go with A Matter of Life and Death as my favorite. I think it has the most quality and consistency from track to track and it has the most songs of any of the new albums that I like. If I had to pick just one track from the new era though, it would have to be Paschendale. That song is a masterpiece of Maiden awesomeness that holds up to almost anything from the classic era.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Well let me speak my part on this, lol, just to clarify......

I don't think Somewhere In Time or Seventh Son are "bad" albums. In fact I really quite like SIT alot.

The so-called "uproar" with Maiden fans at the time SSOASS was released didn't really have to do with epic length (I mean could you get more "epic" than "Ancient Mariner"?? lol) I think it had to do with the fact that the music overall felt "softer" and became more progressive in that way where you listened and felt like, "Okay, where the fuck is this song going? Where's the payoff, the big hook, etc.? Jesus christ do they need MORE synths and chorused-out clean guitars???"

I saw them on that tour, in 1988. They'd play songs like "Trooper" and "Prisoner" and they had energy, hook, power..... then they'd launch into something from SSOASS and you could just feel the energy drop, and put up next to the older tunes, the new stuff felt meandering. I left that show feeling pretty bummed and it especially colored how I felt about that album as a whole.


Now, fast forward to present times.....

Being a bit older (ahem, "a bit" is stretching it, lol) and with the benefit of hindsight and having different tastes these days, I can appreciate that album much more than I did at the time. There are in fact some cool melodies and hooks on there, and the playing needless to say is excellent.

But as to whether it's "just as classic and essential as the rest of the 1980s Maiden catalog"?

Well first of all, we know this is subjective at best, so there is no definitive word on it. But I guess I can't really give a solid "yes" or "no" on the matter. I look at it more like this--

Kiss released "Music From The Elder" in 1981. Voivod released "Angel Rat" in 1992. Aerosmith released "Rock In A Hard Place" in 1982. I absolutely adore all of those albums. But what they all have in common with each other and SSOASS is that they were controversial and definitely the "departure" records for each of those bands upon their respective releases. Over time, many fans of these bands have come to accept and love these albums, and many fans today will say that "The Elder" or "Angel Rat" is just as essential and classic as the rest of the early catalog now. I am one of those people. But, the fact still remains that at the time those records were released and for a little while afterwards, they were most certainly NOT regarded in this manner by a majority of fans.

I think albums like SSOASS, and even SIT, kinda fit into their own category in this regard. They've come to earn the respect and praise of many fans since their release, and they are "essential listening" for any Maiden fan at least in terms of being more than worthy of being checked out and absorbed. Some IM fans out there think that records like "Killers" aren't necessarily "essential", I've found. That happens to be my favorite Maiden record, so I definitely disagree! But it goes to show that there isn't one definitive viewpoint on this matter.

For me personally, while I consider records like SIT, or The Elder, or Angel Rat..... to be some of the BEST music that those bands ever recorded and among my favorite records of all time, at the same time I can still kinda understand and respect the reasons why a huge portion of fans out there do not share my opinion on the matter. Because as great as the music on those records really is..... they're still too "different" and a step to the side from what the majority of fans consider to be the "truly classic" sound of those respective bands.

I think every classic, long-running band has at least one or two of those albums that can be considered "Classic and essential for being different and experimental", and I think that's more or less where SIT and SSOASS stands.

....Unlike Judas Priest "Turbo" which was just a worthless piece of shit, for the most part. LOL

 

[ND Mike]

I think that my opinions of favorite Maiden songs/albums may be skewed a little bit by the fact that I view them through the filter of being a bass player. I wouldn't necessarily say that The Prophecy or Heaven Can Wait are better songs that The Trooper or Run to the Hills but I enjoy playing The Prophecy and Heaven Can Wait a hell of a lot more. This in turn makes me like the songs more (in the context of performing them I guess)

Phantom of the Opera is the ultimate song though, both playing and listening wise. Phantom is probably the closest I could come to picking a favorite song but there are so many awesome songs that it's impossible to pick just one.

 

[ND Mike]

Larry, I couldn't have said it better myself. You make a lot of valid points and you have a different perspective to view Maiden from because you witnesses and experienced the evolution from an earlier point than I did. When I was first exposed to and fell in love with Maiden, it was 1989. The Number of the Beast was the first album I heard and I really loved it but SIT and 7th Son were already canon at this point and I fell in love with those albums too. Maybe that's why I was so disappointed with No Prayer when it came out. It was the first "new" album I experienced as a Maiden fan and it did not live up to the standards that I expected from previous albums. (Of course in hindsight, Adrian's departure and Bruce being burned out may have been contibuting factors to my disappointment but I wasn't really aware of these things at the time since I was a 10 year old newbie Maiden fan) I still think Tailgunner is a great jam and the song No Prayer for the Dying is decent but overall I don't really care for the album.

As far as Turbo goes...you're right, the album is a tightly coiled, steamy pile of shit...but Turbo Lover is still a better song than Lick it Up!!!

 

[ND Mike]

You Decide...

 

[Jasonic]

I LOVE Priest, but would have to go with LICK IT UP on that one.

I dunno, I think there are some good tunes on TURBO, like Parental Guidance and Locked In, but that's just me.

Larry - Good points indeed. Good reference to Angel Rat for VoiVod. Hell, I remember feeling rather meh when Nothingface came out. At the time, VV died for me after Dimension Hatross.

I know for me, I appreciate a lot of things I didn't when I was younger and more close minded.

 

[cubed]

I love me some Maiden. In fact the last band I saw live was a Maiden tribute band called 'Maiden Scotland'.

SSOASS is one of my favourites and I still listen to it now. I never really gelled with SiT though I don't know what it is just something with the overall sound of the album. Never ventured into the Blaze era.

However their last couple of albums have been absolutely stunning especially 'A Matter of Life and Death' check out the track 'For The Greater Good of God'
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns-fQRnm9sk"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns-fQRnm9sk[/ame]

Listen to it all the way through and tell me it doesn't rock.

 

[Rycher]

Turbo Lover over Lick It Up!

Somewhere in Time is my second favorite Maiden album behind Number of the Beast. I was born in 1980, and thus didn't get into Maiden until 1996/1997, thus I can't really talk about what those albums were like when they were released.

I love the songs on SIT, with the exception of Long Distance Runner and sometimes Heaven Can Wait. Every other song is just awesome. Deja Vu is probably the most under-rated Maiden song in their entire catalog, with Judas Be My Guide right behind it.

I agree with the comments about Seventh Son - some of those tunes just meander, but there's 2-3 classics on the disc.

Personally, I think the worst two albums are the first two with Dianno. Sure, they're classic Maiden songs, but I hate Dianno. I really only like hearing those songs sung by Bruce.

 

[OPETH_DT]

Lick It Up gets the nod from me. I've seen it live enough times! As far as Maiden goes, I saw them 2 years ago, and the place was practically sold out. So much for what people think about older bands! The crowd's average age was well below mine, let's put it that way. To see kids singing along to songs we grew up with... talk about a phenomenal experience. It had to have been one of the best live performances I had ever seen. I was fortunate enough to find a bootleg of the show and I listen to it all the time.

 

[Jasonic]

Judas Be My Guide

Yer darn tootin'

Can't say I agree with your DiAnno feelings.
He had the perfect punk / NWOBHM voice which fit those albums well.

His voice nowadays though............ X 100000

 

[ND Mike]

The rest of the Judas Beast guys think I'm nuts because I prefer Di'Anno singing the Di'Anno Maiden. Bruce just "Bruces" it up too much for me when he sings the Di'Anno shit. Those songs weren't meant to be sung like that just like Aces High wasn't meant to be sung by a guy like Di'Anno.

 

[The Spirit Seed]

Turbo is the biggest pile of crap not sung by Tim Owens, to bear the Priest logo. I'll even take Nostradamus over Turbo. As far as that fight goes...Lick It Up all the way (Hey, it was my first exposure to Kiss...I gotta enjoy it!).

As far as the Maiden goes, I personally don't think SIT or SSOASS holds a candle to any of the earlier material. Yeah they both had a few songs each that I enjoyed, but I wouldn't go pulling them out of my CD collection too often. The first 5 are really the ones that held my interest. The Blaze era sucked..the first 1/2 of BNW was good, after that, I lost any interest.

 

[NvmbrsDoom5]

Yeah it seems like when it comes to Maiden especially, fans tend to have some quite varied opinions. I've heard many fans say that they think Piece Of Mind is the best classic Maiden album, whereas for me it's probably my LEAST favorite of the 1980-1986 period. Which isn't to say that I don't like it, it's got some great songs on it but definitely a few that I can easily skip.

And I loved Dianno's voice. Killers is such an amazing album to me because it's a balance between the direction they went with ...Beast and their earlier nwobhm/punky sound.

If I had to pick a favorite Maiden tune, it'd probably be Murders In The Rue Morgue. I love the original from Killers, and the live version with Bruce from the Hammersmith '82 show is vicious.

Oh and for the record, Nicko is great, but Clive Burr fucking RULED.

 

[FrostGiant]

Seventh Son is my favorite Maiden album. Powerslave is up there too.

 

[Jasonic]

Turbo is the biggest pile of crap not sung by Tim Owens, to bear the Priest logo. I'll even take Nostradamus over Turbo. As far as that fight goes...Lick It Up all the way (Hey, it was my first exposure to Kiss...I gotta enjoy it!).

So you would take Rocka Rolla over Turbo?????

also, WTF is wrong with Nostradamus?
Sure, it doesn't give the same quick instant gratification that most Priest albums give, but if you take the time to listen to it fully, it makes a difference.

@ pate - Yes, I agree that one of the best things about this board has always been everyone's willing to give their honest opinion about bands in general, and no one gives anyone crap for it.

 

[Haughm]

My favorites are Somewhere In Time and Seventh Son above all of the others. Though the whole 80s Bruce era is incredible, classic, and timeless. No other heavy metal band will ever touch the greatness of that era. Period. I've always hated the first two albums BECAUSE of fucking Di'Anno's voice. They should just record over them with Bruce and be done with it.....would improve both albums immensely.

...I'm going to run away now...

JH

 

[metalprof]

Jumping in late, but trying to describe the greatness of Number of the Beast to Seventh Son is like trying to compare the greatness of Hemispheres to Signals (Rush). They're both excellent in their own rights, but the musical focus did shift from one album to the other. You can like one just as much as another, you're just using a different measuring stick.

Ken