Is an ego a bad thing?

[The Uppance Has Come]

If you have become an inherintly sad selfish person and an ego is a good coping mechinism is it really bad? And another thing can selfish people be selfless al all or do they only care about others sometimes because they are afraid of lifes judgements and looking bad to themselves or others?

Oh yeah and do other egoholics just bother us simply because they challege or damage our egos?

Discuss.

 

[Norsemaiden]

If you have become an inherintly sad selfish person and an ego is a good coping mechinism is it really bad? And another thing can selfish people be selfless al all or do they only care about others sometimes because they are afraid of lifes judgements and looking bad to themselves or others?

Oh yeah and do other egoholics just bother us simply because they challege or damage our egos?

Discuss.

Very selfish and inconsiderate people have a strategy for living life which is not as rewarding or successful as being selfless and considerate towards your nearest kin and friends that you wish to consider as a part of your genepool.

The kind of selfishness that you mention does indeed coincide with being egotistical, and yet I hesitate to condemn egotistical behaviour as I don't think that all egotistical people have to manifest it in that kind of way necessarily. Too much ego is wrong, but so is too much modesty imo. Both can be taken to extremes. Being a fan of Nietzsche, I have to say that Nietzsche certainly favours the proud and self-confident (egotist?) over the self-deprecating and lacking in confidence. Which personality type do we prefer? Science has shown that the former are more popular and the latter are embarassing.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I don't beleive in the ego, id, or superego. I think they are just wacko theories of Freud.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I wasn't referring to ego in a Freudian sense, but rather in the common usage of the word as in "egotistical" really just means an elevated sense of self esteem. So the question could be :is high self esteem a good or a bad thing. Not long ago we had an almost identical question where I explained about the "vain brain" phenomenon that is a universal human trait, necessary for survival.

 

[10293847]

I don't beleive in the ego, id, or superego. I think they are just wacko theories of Freud.

I agree. Ego sounds like moralizing to me.

 

[Silver Incubus]

I wasn't referring to ego in a Freudian sense, but rather in the common usage of the word as in "egotistical" really just means an elevated sense of self esteem. So the question could be :is high self esteem a good or a bad thing. Not long ago we had an almost identical question where I explained about the "vain brain" phenomenon that is a universal human trait, necessary for survival.

I'm going to say that I don't beleive in self esteem either. I mean, really what is self esteem? Self worth? well if that is the case then people believe redundant things that cause lower self worth(for example fat people reading fashion magazines)

People with this "low self esteem" are just not doing things that make them feel good and that is the end of it. If you are doing things that make you feel good you don't have low self esteem. Its mostly just a lack of motivation combinded with the self pity crap that people get on so that people will pay attention to them. In reality it is no different then being very vague so people keep talking to you to find out more, intimidating people into paying attention to you or any other activity like them.

Ask a person "How do you know you have low self esteem?" and be prepared for something outrageous.

 

[judas69]

Ego is important for your own personal survival foremost, and that of others depending. For example, many people get an ego-boast from helping others and I don't think this is all bad considering the end result is positive in both cases, especially if that person would not be helping for any other reason.

Capitolism is very much a system running on the ego.

However, ego can be a double-edged sword. If it's too big and you think too highly of yourself, you will end up working against yourself and others so, there is a fine balance. You're probably best integrated having a smaller ego than a bigger one.

 

[The Uppance Has Come]

I'm thinking a happy person with an ego is better than a sad person with an ego well not always. I think I'm just a sad disatisfied person who's unhappy with life and sometimes takes it out on others or trys to cover it with false pride but of course in reality I'm a nice person that's hurting. Is it possible not to be able to be as happy as one was before ever again? I took medications that severely stunted my emotion. I'm sad and angry once and a while at best indiferent or intrigued. Things still interest me but it's not the same. Some may say "deal with your reality" but I can't because this problem is preventing my from being able to enjoy life or do much at all. I've become very insecere and reclused only talking to a couple of close friends and family. I've got my band and I'm in pieces if we don't meet which we haven't for two weeks...this is a place for intelligent discussion but I'm still afraid of being bashed or looked down upon because I'm always negetive. The doctors want give me antidepressant pills for these problems but those would just somnolize me (sp?) and just give me more reason to be upset and I've tried them already (once you've tried on it seems you've tried them all but I tried 5). If all this post seems like a jumbled mess or you couldn't understand some of it sorry.

 

[Norsemaiden]

I'm thinking a happy person with an ego is better than a sad person with an ego well not always. I think I'm just a sad disatisfied person who's unhappy with life and sometimes takes it out on others or trys to cover it with false pride but of course in reality I'm a nice person that's hurting. Is it possible not to be able to be as happy as one was before ever again? I took medications that severely stunted my emotion. I'm sad and angry once and a while at best indiferent or intrigued. Things still interest me but it's not the same. Some may say "deal with your reality" but I can't because this problem is preventing my from being able to enjoy life or do much at all. I've become very insecere and reclused only talking to a couple of close friends and family. I've got my band and I'm in pieces if we don't meet which we haven't for two weeks...this is a place for intelligent discussion but I'm still afraid of being bashed or looked down upon because I'm always negetive. The doctors want give me antidepressant pills for these problems but those would just somnolize me (sp?) and just give me more reason to be upset and I've tried them already (once you've tried on it seems you've tried them all but I tried 5). If all this post seems like a jumbled mess or you couldn't understand some of it sorry.

The following post was written before I realised that you have already got some good advice on the thread about losing intelligence. But most of my points are still relevant so I'm leaving the post as it is.

Don't worry. That was easy enough to understand. My initial reaction to hearing that some medication did this to you is to ask you: did you sue? I know money won't cure your problem, but it may help deter them from giving out these drugs and not caring about the consequences. Anti-depressant pills often have bad side effects and don't always work - I suppose if all else fails they are a last resort.
We should cut you some slack for having a negative outlook on life given that your brain has been altered in the way you describe.

If it is at all possible, you should try to gather some will power to force yourself to change habits. Attempt to be a little more sociable. But especially if you could get into excercise - running outdoors is well known to improve mood a lot - or just any kind of vigorous excercise that gets the heart pumping for at least half an hour every day. (Half an hour INTENSIVE excercise - not just mild). You can find advice on the net about how to build up instead of going from doing nothing habitually to doing it every day.

Diet seriously affects mood also: oily fish such as sardines at least 3 times a week (eg one can as a portion) is what I prescribe. Avoid white bread, fatty food like McDonalds, and especially sugar which will fuel feelings of frustration. Eat fruit and veg regualarly too of course.

 

[ALK]

First, Anti-Depressants (or how ever thats spelled) medications is a last resort and not a solution in its own rights. Seteralin (sp?) based medications like Zoloft have more side effects than possitive effects. I.E. loss of emotions, apathy, sexuall dysfunctions etc. My personal experience with these medications is limited to one medication and thus not universal but based on it just going through depressive periods is much better than having next to no feelings at all.

Back on topic.
Selfishness or Egoism is in my opinion only natural, and no acts is made purly in the intrest of others. Why? Giving to charity, beggers, curches etc. proves to yourself that you are a good humanbeing. Thus these acts while not in them self egoistic is motivated by selfish need for confirmation of your own sense of self image as a good person. Every emotion, act or thougth is in some way egoistic or at least egosentric. Egosentrism is also something that is completly natural and impossible to remove oneself from. Everyone percives the world in a different way and reacts out of personal experience and opinion.

Now all this might brand me a cynic and misanthrope, this is wrong. I verry much belive than everyone can do good deed even though these acts are motivated by selfish desire.

 

[Seditious]

I wasn't referring to ego in a Freudian sense, but rather in the common usage of the word as in "egotistical" really just means an elevated sense of self esteem.

word


I can't be arsed finding the quote but I keep the idea in mind often, 'to become great sometimes you have to believe you're greater than you are'

 

[Norsemaiden]

It should have been mentioned by now but "pride" is one of the seven deadly sins! I doubt anyone here would agree with that idea.

 

[Seditious]

It should have been mentioned by now but "pride" is one of the seven deadly sins! I doubt anyone here would agree with that idea.

all the 'seven deadly sins' are natural.
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=5A5176AE77824B42

 

[judas69]

I can't be arsed finding the quote but I keep the idea in mind often, 'to become great sometimes you have to believe you're greater than you are'

Though there are many differing interpretations of what characterizes something or someone as "great", I think you definitely have to push yourself beyond your means if you want to achieve beyond your means, remain open and undogmatic to that which is beyond your grasp if you want to attain that which lies beyond your grasp etc.

To a certain degree, the genius potential is fueled by an irrational ability to transcend the ordinary and mundane even with little supporting evidence, the ability to infer yet unestablished relationships intuitively, and of course making that effort to act on it. Ego certainly can help in this regard.

Although I was in support of ego in my first post, my answer was of course just one sided. There are "negative" aspects of one who holds themselves in the highest regard and this, for the most part, is almost always at the expense of another. Thus, the process of determining value in an egotist is that only in relation to themselves.

It should have been mentioned by now but "pride" is one of the seven deadly sins! I doubt anyone here would agree with that idea.

Ego can also be quite harmful. Pride for example, can lead to self-neglect, an inability to ask for help when needed for the sake of ones own cause or oranization. Pride can keep you from being honest to your boss; coming clean on a mistake and thus putting your company, job and family in jeopardy. Pride can also encourage you to act outside of your boundaries, again causing trouble especially on the level of control and organization in a business.

So in response to your statement, I do infact consider pride a "deadly sin" and an idea connected with a negative aspect of ego.

As Seditious's quote implies, ego is often grounded on illusion and one's often faulty preconceived notiations of themselves, who they are and want to be ..but are not and may never be. Thus, personal honesty and integrity are sacrificed, nothing is left for gain except perhaps future frustration and distain towards those who have achieved.

 

[fah-q]

Avoid having your ego so close to your position that when your position falls, your ego goes with it. -Colon Powell

 

[MURAI]

Having an ego (I am using the word in the sense which means the part of you that goes me) is natural. It tells you that you are important and it gives you a meaning (even though it may become very distorted) for your self-worth. It can act like a coping mechanism like it was mentioned earlier. It drives one to achieve, seek recognition, and to assert oneself. Selfishness is somewhat natural because its main drive is self-preservation and it can drive one to change one's surroundings to how you want it. So, it can help to discipline oneself instead of just sitting there and go along with the flow of others. The degree of how large one's ego depends but most people have some. Rarely, but there are people who have very little of it and they can be defined "selfless". They just do not desire much and can give themselves to others naturally. Perhaps, some become depressed because they have their self-worth wounded and their ego can not cope with it.

Personally, I think I am fairly selfish in nature. I have been even called childish and "immature" at times. But some nature in one's personality, selfishness in this case, is something you can't change and something you have to live with.

It should have been mentioned by now but "pride" is one of the seven deadly sins! I doubt anyone here would agree with that idea.

Not just Christianity but the other major religion condemn it because its a tendency that those with large egos are disagreeable in nature. Firstly, they believe that ego can become so large to the point that it makes one insolent to God and order. So, they think need to be tamed to be able to make them obey their religion. Secondly, selfishness is equated with the very origin of evil because they think it can drive one to do anything to get ahead including exploiting others. Thirdly, it is believed to be a source of constant dissatisfaction instead of being content in their place. You brought up Nietzsche, and in his writing he constantly opposed traditional values of religion like humility, patience, compassion and so on and praised egoism as healthy.

One Buddhist commented that having a large ego makes one childish, angry, and their souls ugly. There are bad aspects of having a large ego and what he said has some truth. He categorizes people like that having souls which leads them to the path of Asura. In the Japanese Mahayana school of Buddhism, which he is from, there is the well known belief of 6 paths which are Deva, Human, Asura, Animal, Hungry Ghost, and Naraka. Asura was originally a god of justice but has later became the god of constant conflict. Those with Asura traits he explain to have a soul which is ruled by anger and it makes one overly self-interested, paranoid, envious, and hateful which all drives them to battle. It does not matter if you're not personally Buddhist or religious at all, but it is true that generally those with large egos to be quarrelsome and ready for battle. Possibly people with large egos strongly desire recognition because they have knots of insecurity and fears behind the surface.

 

[The Devil's Steed]

I'm going to say that I don't beleive in self esteem either. I mean, really what is self esteem? Self worth? well if that is the case then people believe redundant things that cause lower self worth(for example fat people reading fashion magazines)

People with this "low self esteem" are just not doing things that make them feel good and that is the end of it. If you are doing things that make you feel good you don't have low self esteem. Its mostly just a lack of motivation combinded with the self pity crap that people get on so that people will pay attention to them. In reality it is no different then being very vague so people keep talking to you to find out more, intimidating people into paying attention to you or any other activity like them.

Ask a person "How do you know you have low self esteem?" and be prepared for something outrageous.

 

[MURAI]

To a certain degree, the genius potential is fueled by an irrational ability to transcend the ordinary and mundane even with little supporting evidence, the ability to infer yet unestablished relationships intuitively, and of course making that effort to act on it. Ego certainly can help in this regard.

But aren't you refering to becoming self-transcendant and doesn't it require ,as the word says, transcending the "self"? So don't you have to go pass the ego, self-consciousness, laws all together to go into those higher levels. What I am saying here, is that you have to act spontaneously and naturally without even being aware of it.

Ego can also be quite harmful. Pride for example, can lead to self-neglect, an inability to ask for help when needed for the sake of ones own cause or oranization. Pride can keep you from being honest to your boss; coming clean on a mistake and thus putting your company, job and family in jeopardy. Pride can also encourage you to act outside of your boundaries, again causing trouble especially on the level of control and organization in a business.

Yes, there is that aspect that one can become so conceited that you believe that you dont need any help at all or admitting any errors.

 

[judas69]

But aren't you refering to becoming self-transcendant and doesn't it require ,as the word says, transcending the "self"? So don't you have to go pass the ego, self-consciousness, laws all together to go into those higher levels. What I am saying here, is that you have to act spontaneously and naturally without even being aware of it.

To be self-transcedant in my mind, is to not deny aspects of self, but rather to not be hung up by them. Acting spontaneously and naturally really has more to do with not being mindful of ones faculties and allowing them free rein; you can't really completely separate yourself from your ego and do anything productive.

 

[Korona]

You need to realise two important facts. Firstly Nietzsche is totally right, it is vital to "say Yes! to life" and a strong sense of self - of who and what you are - is central to that. However "who you are" isn't something that exists in a vaccum. As has already been hinted at, were you to shut yourself up you would become a manic-depressive recluse. Who we are is defined by our relationships with our friends and families. The idea that a blazing pillar of willpower is something that is cultivated by steamrollering over other people is an utterly repugnant philosophy and ignores the contradiction inherant in selfish acts - we hurt ourselves by hurting those around us.
To put it bluntly - other people are just as important for a healthy "ego" as the subject is itself.

@Silver Incubus et al - There is nothing "outrageous" in saying "I have a low estimation of my worth and value as a person at the moment". This is what is meant by saying "I currently have low self-esteem".
There are many reasons to say this including -
inability to give up an addiction
saying things you regret
upsetting people
lying to people for self gain
cheating to win
stealing candy from babies
working in advertising

@ people who want to debate Freud - geez start a new topic, the coloquial use of "ego" to mean a headstrong sense of self is totally differet to how Freud meant it.