Is the DI tone affected by the preamp ?

[pifos_2]

Hey folks,

I was just thinking about this.

Does it make a difference to track DI guitars (for upcoming reamping) via a Firepod or via a Fireface 800 or via PT HD interface ?

Did you have the occasion to hear significant differences ? And if so, what would be the minimal interface you'd use to track, let's say, a first album ?

 

[LSD-Studio]

I'm usually using the Hi-Z in of the API (instead of a DI-Box) and don't have any problems with that.
I don't really like the preamps of the RME though I guess they're better than the ones in the Firepod

 

[RKelly]

Preamps have a HUGE effect on DI's

The converters make less of a difference, but if it's an option, why not use the HD interface?

 

[brandy]

Jep, huge difference - but often I would not say "this is sounding good" and "this is sounding bad". Just different. Make sure to not clip/distort the preamp. Cheaper preamps starts to sound nasty when driven hard. Leave enough headroom. Most "mistakes" I have to deal with when mixing stuff which was recorded in a bedroom studio are "too hot" or even clipped tracks. I do not care if a snare peaks here and there in a song as long as there is no audible distortion.

But it is REALLY REALLY difficult to get a decent bass (or guitar) tone with a permanently clipped DI track....

 

[pifos_2]

Preamps have a HUGE effect on DI's

The converters make less of a difference, but if it's an option, why not use the HD interface?

ahahah unfortunatly, of course it is NOT an option. I just have a firebox and if the preamps seemed to be fine for demo stuff, I just think about the necessity to purchase a better interface or not or maybe or whatever.

 

[Metaltastic]

Yeah, it's really just a matter of the overall sheen on the tone; cheaper pre-amps won't be as full and might be a bit "grainy" (or other vague audio-snob terms), but since you're recording something totally clean for the purposes of re-amping, it doesn't matter as much. Of course, if you've got the cash for a better interface, it certainly wouldn't hurt! But the most important thing is a quality DI, and I'm pretty sure you're already set with that

 

[Melodeath]

I've been thinking about this lately as well. We care how a DI sounds, but a DI is routed through a preamp (which will definitely affect the sound) as well.

I've been thinking about how when I buy a DI, should I just go into the mic pre and not add any gain? Adding preamp gain will make the recording hotter, but will this affect reamping as well?

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

Funny the DI on my 001 sounds like ass compared to my Redeye DI, but it's still useable.

 

[Metaltastic]

I've been thinking about this lately as well. We care how a DI sounds, but a DI is routed through a preamp (which will definitely affect the sound) as well.

I've been thinking about how when I buy a DI, should I just go into the mic pre and not add any gain? Adding preamp gain will make the recording hotter, but will this affect reamping as well?

I'm pretty sure you'll need to use at least some gain or else you'll be peaking at like -20 db

 

[Melodeath]

What would be so bad about that?

It's nowhere near the noise floor

Btw, you're never on MSN

 

[Metaltastic]

Well the main problem is you'd have to get the level up somehow so the amp would get a hot enough signal, which would mean boosting the output digitally - might not necessarily be a bad thing, but I'd rather capture a hot signal from the get go

 

[RKelly]

ahahah unfortunatly, of course it is NOT an option. I just have a firebox and if the preamps seemed to be fine for demo stuff, I just think about the necessity to purchase a better interface or not or maybe or whatever.

Well having higher quality equipment is rarely a bad thing but don't at all think you need a certain piece of gear to make 'pro' or album recordings. Figure out the way to use your equipment the best way possible and go from there.

If you have an outboard preamp go ahead and use it, even if you're using on board preamps I'd say to use a DI before you hit the pre, but try it both ways. Maybe it'll be great!

We care how a DI sounds, but a DI is routed through a preamp (which will definitely affect the sound) as well.

That is a good point, if you record in and are planning on reamping there doesn't seem to be any reason you'd need the extra gain (easy enough to add digitally anyway), simply hitting a pre though will usually impart some coloration/tone regardless of adding gain or not. Try going into a line input bypassing a pre entirely

 

[Melodeath]

Ah, but then we have new issues, as line inputs have different input impedance than mic inputs, and since DIs are meant to attenuate the signal to mic level, the xlr mic input is where it's meant to be connected. You're going to get tons of noise if you bypass the preamp (depending on how hot the DI is of course). A DI attenuates the signal to mic level, so bypassing a pre is sort of like plugging in a mic and recording in your DAW with the preamp gain all the way down. If you raise the volume in you're DAW, it's probably going to be noisy.

Frankly, it seems like what you need is a DI that outputs line level - but then again, that is just a preamp haha

 

[crosstalk]

I've been meaning to ask this for awhile, I'm using a Firepod and have a Radial Pro DI. If I plug into the Firepod's instrument inputs, I get a pretty loud signal. If I go through the Radial into the Firepod I get a pretty weak signal. If I try turning up the gain on the preamp it seems to distort the signal. Anyone else have any experience with this or have some suggestions?

 

[pifos_2]

Yeah, it's really just a matter of the overall sheen on the tone; cheaper pre-amps won't be as full and might be a bit "grainy" (or other vague audio-snob terms), but since you're recording something totally clean for the purposes of re-amping, it doesn't matter as much. Of course, if you've got the cash for a better interface, it certainly wouldn't hurt! But the most important thing is a quality DI, and I'm pretty sure you're already set with that

yeah you're right about the DI

well we'll see how far I can go with the Firebox!

 

[GuitarMaestro]

What would be so bad about that?

It's nowhere near the noise floor

True! But you'll have to adjust the volume anyway when sending the signal out for reamping.
And the hotter you hit the a/d converters during recording the better the use of their resolution...
And dont underestimate the noise floor. If you reamp through a high gain amp, the slightest noise is blown up beyond belief.

 

[brandy]

True! But you'll have to adjust the volume anyway when sending the signal out for reamping.

yes, indeed.

And the hotter you hit the a/d converters during recording the better the use of their resolution...

for 16 bit convertes - > yes (because only 96db dynamic range)
for 24bit converters -> no! There is no need to hit them hard. They will even sound better when working in the range around 0dbu (usually around -14dbfs) - that's were they are calibrated to. And you have 144db of dynamic range - so even a signal which is peaking at -20dbfs will have LOTS of dynamic range.

But that:

You have
And dont underestimate the noise floor. If you reamp through a high gain amp, the slightest noise is blown up beyond belief.

is so true - sustaining guitars or fade outs (were the amp stil produces a lot of sound while you can see any signal in the DI track anymore) tends to get noise like hell...

But I still don't know what this is causing - maybe the added noise during DI/Preamp - cables - reamping box? I can not believe that this is caused by converteres. I have Lynx Aurora 16 converters and they are quite clean...