Is the Kemper essentially a computer running a software algorithm ?

[mickrich]

Serious question.
I don't know a lot about whats involved in the box.
Does it have any non digital processing going on?

I will probably not get one due to the thrill my clients get from playing through a Triple Rectifier or 6505 etc.
It is part of the studio experience that will not be replaced by plugging a box into the interface IMO.

I can see the usefulness of it for recreating a sound for later dropins or to use profiles of amps I don't have.

What I am really wondering is if the Kemper process could be run as a plugin if somebody could recreate or reverse engineer the algorithm that Kemper is using.

 

[drew_drummer]

I don't know for certain, but yes... most of these units are. The only reason there isn't an Axe FX software version is probably piracy (mostly) ... again, don't know for certain. Everything in a box is assembly code at the end of the day... which can be run on most processors. SSE2, 3, and 4 optimizations notwithstanding.

 

[sprack]

The DSPs and FPGA's still do this kind of FFT/convolution work faster than a multi-purpose arch CPU. It could be done on CUDA too, but there's latency on the load/store with those that don't make realtime viable. But like drew_drummer said, less piracy.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I will probably not get one due to the thrill my clients get from playing through a Triple Rectifier or 6505 etc.
It is part of the studio experience that will not be replaced by plugging a box into the interface IMO.

I could not agree more. I own a Kemper and I use it all the time. But if I went into someone else's studio I would be recording through an amp, no question. I would grab a profile just in case I needed it. But tracking through an amp is such a more musical experience. For me at least. I miss that part. I never get to track guys with a real amp anymore. I miss that.

 

[Metalbone]

Serious question.
I don't know a lot about whats involved in the box.
Does it have any non digital processing going on?

What I am really wondering is if the Kemper process could be run as a plugin if somebody could recreate or reverse engineer the algorithm that Kemper is using.

I've heard about clients that have recorded with amps and kempers in studio that were extremely impressed that they could have that studio sound saved. Then there are those who won't use digital (or drive modern cars). It can be good to have many options.

AFAIK the Kemper is all digital with a lot of complex algorithms and new solutions other products don't use. They would only lose money if they went software = piracy.
Some info in this long interview with C.Kemper, discussing the difference between modeling and profiling and other things.
http://www.guitar-muse.com/kemper-profiling-amp-2949-2949

Some more kemper spec info etc here:
http://www.kemper-amps.com/home
http://www.wikpa.org/Main_Page

Also some info about the kemper profiling patent that expires in 2026.
http://www.kemper-amps.com/forum/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=3516&pageNo=1
Link to several pages of the actual profiling patent
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publ...80612&DB=worldwide.espacenet.com&locale=en_EP

 

[Matt-Steele]

It's all about the DSP baby!

 

[kvoid]

I for one would really like to see a gutshot of the Kemper. If it is indeed anything like most modern hi-end digital mixers, it will use a Field Programmable Gate Array, or FPGA, which is basically a processing unit whose architecture can be software defined/customized. Best to think of it as a bunch of logical gates and registers (the building blocks of any processor) you can tailor to suit your required application.

It could though, like the AxeFX, be built around an off-the-shelf DSP unit.

 

[MattGrave]

With enough disposable income, I'd love to have a Kemper to profile tones as I record a project through real amps. Would be great for back-up purposes - I had a hard drive crash 6 months ago and could only recover the DIs from my session. A profile backup of the tone would've been great.

 

[xFkx]

I for one would really like to see a gutshot of the Kemper. If it is indeed anything like most modern hi-end digital mixers, it will use a Field Programmable Gate Array, or FPGA, which is basically a processing unit whose architecture can be software defined/customized. Best to think of it as a bunch of logical gates and registers (the building blocks of any processor) you can tailor to suit your required application.

It could though, like the AxeFX, be built around an off-the-shelf DSP unit.

anywho, it's a computer and it's running algorythms that could potentially be ported to a pc.

Oh, and Christoph Kemper is a genius of some sort, having created the access virus, now the kemper, and he's only like.. 40 or something.

 

[sprack]

Looks like its a Freescale DSP.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=1031504

It could though, like the AxeFX, be built around an off-the-shelf DSP unit.

 

[mickrich]

Thanks for the replies.
I didn't realise that Kemper was Access. I thought the company came out of nowhere which was surprising.
If it is indeed software, I wonder how long before somebody like Slate or Waves manage to engineer a plugin that does this.
I could see a stand alone application for making the profile then a plugin to run it in the DAW like Logic's impulse response utility and space designer.
I will probably cave in and buy a Kemper a week before such a plugin gets released
Seriously though, great as the Kemper is, it will be old tech in a few years whereas my heads will still be "current" and that would certainly put me off buying one.
I used to own a MI shop and we stopped stocking keyboards because we were always getting stuck with last years "game changing" synths whose value dropped like a stone when the new model came out.
I fully understand that people are buying it to use it rather than worry about resale value and depreciation is meaningless if you are getting value from the product and using it. (much like computers)
Also my wife would kill me if I dropped 1.5K on a piece of gear at the moment.

 

[JeffTD]

I can't put a price on not needing a 4x12 to get tones I'm OK with using on a final product, and I'd lose my mind and burn my computer down trying to run a plugin version.

 

[indecizo]

I can't put a price on not needing a 4x12 to get tones I'm OK with using on a final product, and I'd lose my mind and burn my computer down trying to run a plugin version.

C'mon 2k is not THAT much specially for such a powerful machine. Kemper is worth a dual rectifier but instead you get a toaster that holds a motherfuckload of real sounding amp chains. Have you even heard the Lasse profiles? Of course you'll have to pay for the cool ones. Unless you are on a difficult situation right now, I'd say get it.

 

[JeffTD]

C'mon 2k is not THAT much specially for such a powerful machine. Kemper is worth a dual rectifier but instead you get a toaster that holds a motherfuckload of real sounding amp chains. Have you even heard the Lasse profiles? Of course you'll have to pay for the cool ones. Unless you are on a difficult situation right now, I'd say get it.

I'm pretty sure you've misread my post. I've been a proud KPA owner for about a year now and love it more and more every time I use it. Only paid $1500 for it used back then, too. Best guitar-related purchase I've ever made.

And honestly, between my personal profiles, the LL ones and a few other free ones... I have zero use for the paid profiles. I did a few demos for The Amp Factory and in return received most of their profiles, but I only use a couple of them and it's mostly for cleans.

 

[indecizo]

I'm pretty sure you've misread my post. I've been a proud KPA owner for about a year now and love it more and more every time I use it. Only paid $1500 for it used back then, too. Best guitar-related purchase I've ever made.

And honestly, between my personal profiles, the LL ones and a few other free ones... I have zero use for the paid profiles. I did a few demos for The Amp Factory and in return received most of their profiles, but I only use a couple of them and it's mostly for cleans.

Aw shit. I clicked the wrong quote button. That was directed to "mickrich". For the record, I didn't want to mean there are not good free ones. Well, my own 5150+Mesa and 5150+ENGL profiles are my most used profiles, and these are free to me, lol.

 

[exoslime]

i dont care if Kemper or Axe FX are digital dsp machines as i love what i hear thats coming out of their outputs when i plug in my guitar.

Its true that its "only" some sort of software, but its like with so many software, it does indeed some kind of magic and that its only software running on dsp-hardware and not analoge hardware like a real-tube amp doesnt lower the value for me..
For me the Kemper has a much higher value as it does fit great in my process of playing and working with music than a real amp. period.
A real Amp cranked with Cab is way to loud in my living situation to get constantly great result.
With the Kemper i can record night and day and dont need to worry about anyone if i´m to loud or that i would need to stop as its already 9 o´clock in the evening. so to me, a kemper is much more worth than real analogue tube amps.

Sure it would be nice for some people to have those programms running as an VST on their computer, but to me its way more hasslefree to have it one in a box, coded and optimised for full performance (= great latency and soundquality) and not having to fumble around with Buffersizes and stuff like that and than dont need worry about cpu issues if i´m running 8-instances of that vst that is grinding my cpu down.. i rather record some audio files and be happy with it

Also i really dig the Hi-Z Instrument Inputs on Kemper and Axe FX, they are top notch.

Sure, if you run a studio complex.. nothing can visualy beat a room full of amps, cabs and a huge mixing desk.