Is there a common "mind frame" amongst metal fans?

[SoundMaster]

Something stated in the "Whats this World Coming to?" thread picqued my interest.
One of the posts stated something along these lines: "...almost all metal heads are anti-Bush".

While that may (or may not?) be true, I think that there is a common thread amongst the views of many metal fans.

For example, there appears to be more atheism/agnosticism found in metal circles than in others. How many rap bands and/or fans share that sentiment? Maybe many do, but none that I've ever seen or heard.
Ever hear a country-western song that espouses anything atheistic?

Also, many metal fans appear 'jaded', cynics to a society that they're a part of. Many recognize the fraud that is politics, for example (while that's not a difficult thing to see).

Is there a specific 'psyche' that attracts us to the abrasiveness of metal? Sure, the lyrics are often dark, but so too is the music. And that, I think, is significant.

Ask yourselves why extreme music simply isn't "popular" (in most cases).
Surely, there must be a reason why the average person just doesn't 'get it'. If they did, Slayer or Judas Priest would have 10 #1 hits to their credit and would be mentioned in the same breath as the Beatles or Madonna.

Any thoughts/opinions on this?

 

[TRrEiTxIxRiE DTrash]

I wouldn't have a clue about Bush or whoever his opponent is (I don't even know!). I don't follow American politics here in Australia! In fact I don't even follow Australian politics, can't stand it.

The way I see it, living in Australia, there is sooo little difference between the Labor Party & Liberal Party (equivalent of your Democrats & Republicans respectively I think) that I really couldn't give a fuck who wins elections. It's not like if the Labor party wins the country is gonna turn communist and a war is gonna break out like Vietnam or something haha.

I couldn't really give a shit... doesn't interest me! No matter what happens in politics it ain't gonna change MY life, I'll still be able to do all the things I love doing so I'd rather spend my time doin' those things than following politics!

 

[Hawk]

AS far as I can see dealing with Hard Rock/Metal freaks for almost 30 years, 27 to be correct, I think that most of them are what I would call "Social Individualists".

I don't mean that they don't like to interact with other people. I mean that they can get fiercely independent! As long as you respect their choices with a "Live and let live" attitude, you will have hardly any conflict with them and they will help you whenever you ask them nicely. So don't make the mistake to think that to be a "Social Individualist" means living your own life and not giving a shit about others. Thats *not* what I mean. Most Hard Rock/Metal freaks can be very friendly, helpful and sometimes be mellow people.

However; when you start interfering with their choices and berating them on their music, their clothes, their attitude, their girlfriend, their language, the way they spend their money or their family... be prepared to be smacked in the head or simply be ignored.

We do what we do, the way we wanna do it without anybody fucking telling us that it is wrong. Mind your own fucking business!!


During the American Revolution [1775 - 1783] the US troops used to carry a flag with the "Don't tread on me" symbol on it.

I think this is the best definition the metalheads attitude. And when you lose that attitude it downhill all the way!

I think this comes from learning the hard way. When we discover our music we can not help but notice that our environment does not always share our new found passion. And soon we have to develop an individualistic attitude towards those who moan and groan about our music or give it up. Of course some friends or families are more accepting than others but we will always hear a well meant "I can't believe you can listen to that noise" comments.

In the mid 90s I was a member of the "Midnight Sun" mailing list. A mailing list of Rush fans. One guy told this story that he could not play his favorite music in his own house because his wife and children would not tolerate it! And this was a grown man!! In his own house!!! He had to play his Rush cds outside in his car!! RUSH, for chrissake!!

He got back almost 15 reactions of other guys who faced the same problem! Can you believe that?? How many people can take that and go outside each time to play their favorite music? I really believe a time will come when something will break down and he'll say "fuck it, Rush is not that important to me". If you let it get that far, that moment will come, be it within 5 or 10 years, but it will come.

Here's another story and this really happened the way I tell it. One of my best friends had a new girlfriend. She did not like his music but said very little about it. Then after a few weeks when lying in bed taking a rest, she said to him: " listen; now you can choose, that music or me". He grabs her clothes gives them to her and said: "Goodbye"

My old pal is still into metal

Good tread Soundmaster!

Btw more on the American Revolution see here:

http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/index.html

 

[Insania]

Cool posts. On the outside it looks like I fit the standard mold -- but I carry a lot of contempt for society. Particularly consumerism and religion. I don't need to expand on this; SoundMaster, you nailed me on the head -- a jaded, atheistic, political cynic...but I can still be a cool beerdrinking thrash-metal fanatic.

If I can use a broad brush -- metalheads come in two camps -- young and rebellious, and old and freethinking. The latter is my interpretation of Hawk's 'Individualists'...people who form opinions on rational thought.

 

[Hawk]

Cool posts. On the outside it looks like I fit the standard mold -- but I carry a lot of contempt for society. Particularly consumerism and religion. I don't need to expand on this; SoundMaster, you nailed me on the head -- a jaded, atheistic, political cynic...but I can still be a cool beerdrinking thrash-metal fanatic.

If I can use a broad brush -- metalheads come in two camps -- young and rebellious, and old and freethinking. The latter is my interpretation of Hawk's 'Individualists'...people who form opinions on rational thought.

Thats a cool post Insania. You hit the nail right on the head with your interpetation of my message.

Well done.

BTW I used to shair your "contempt for society. Particularly consumerism and religion" I don't feel that way anymore though.

I don't discriminate anymore, I hate everybody

 

[SoundMaster]

Thanks for the GREAT, thought-provoking posts people!

I, too, am less "cynical" than I used to be. Now, I simply accept the reality of life/society for what it is. In the past, I'd get all pissed or bent out of shape when I witnessed, what I'd consider, a social injustice. Now, it's all par for the course. Sad as that may be.

WHen I was younger, I often asked myself this question:
- is the MUSIC what molds my personality, or, is my personality what's attracted me to the music?
I think the answer is the latter. I clearly remember hearing the songs "Iron Man" and "Flight of Icarus" during the summer of 1984 & thinking "wow, this stuff just epitomizes me". The music was "me"....not sure if that makes sense. The combination of the music, sometimes the lyrics, and always of their delivery (vocals, singing with emotion) just sums up life in a nutshell.

In my view, metal is the most emotional form of music out there (as a genre). Of course, many non-metal artists write emotional music, but, IMO, it's just not quite to metal's level. Or, the other genres tend to stick to only one or two emotions. Metal encompasses all, imo. The fact that metal DOESNOT rely on the masses allows for this, I feel.

 

[Insania]

I think you're right on -- popular music is engineered to the lowest common denominator. Metal doesn't have to be.

My favorite part of metal is that you have to be talented to pull it off (mostly). I liked Forbidden for that exact reason, the shit sounded so cool and logical. As I respect talent, it fit my personality, not the other way around.

 

[desert_demon]

AS far as I can see dealing with Hard Rock/Metal freaks for almost 30 years, 27 to be correct, I think that most of them are what I would call "Social Individualists".]

Excellent post Hawk! Your thoughts equal mine exactly! I guess it IS true that metalheads share a similar mindset. By this I don't mean that we all think alike, but that we hold steadfastly to our beliefs. I could tell many stories about my own experiences with people telling me that metal was "noise", "junk", "the devil's music", etc... but that's needless since we all have our own similar tales.
As for my own mindset, I am a bit of a cynic when it comes to politics and especially religion and am very guarded against people that try to impose themselves upon me.

 

[Thraxz]

AS far as I can see dealing with Hard Rock/Metal freaks for almost 30 years, 27 to be correct, I think that most of them are what I would call "Social Individualists"..... [editted for length]

http://www.pbs.org/ktca/liberty/index.html

GODLY POST! Thank you very much, I couldn't have said it better myself.

If you agree that there are two camps of metalheads I'm a unique blend of both. My natural line thinking (since I was 17) has always, always, always on systematic, logical, reasoning. (How's that for redundancy?) At 22, I'm still young enough to get pissed off at all of the social injustices of the world. I get pissed on a daily basis watching the news. I'm a cynic/atheist/individualist.

I was a free thinker to begin with hence how I got MYSELF into all of the underground music. Most everyone I['ve] know[n] who listens to the type of stuff I do either has been brought into it by their friends etc. Until I stumbled over In Flames I just hadn't realised how BAD the music on the radio really was. I never had anything to compare it to. Once I did, it took all of 2-3 months of buying random CD's from Sam Goody to realise I had become a completely different person. I was already a cynic etc. but the stands I've taken are now from completely different perspectives than they used to.

Great thread.

 

[AngelWitch73]

Excellent post Hawk. You summed up how I feel about this topic exactly.

On a side note since I don´t feel like opening that post about politics: The internet just isn´t a suitable place for discussions of politics and religion in my opinion. There´s too much room for misunderstandings and to many, these topics are emotional ones. Emotion gets lost online (despite emoticons). I can also imagine that half the things said in that thread that were "attacking" one person or another at a personal level would have been omitted had the discussion been done at a round table.

Sorry about going way off topic.

 

[Igor_Cavalera]

Like everyone else, I gotta compliment you on your BRILLIANT post Hawk!!
You're always right!!

there is sooo little difference between the Labor Party & Liberal Party (equivalent of your Democrats & Republicans respectively I think) that I really couldn't give a fuck who wins elections.

My thoughts exactly Trixx. (I'm an Aussie too if you didn't know)


About metalheads in general, I would like to add.. We're commited to the people/things we love and will defend them no matter what. I think we also feel an automatic bond with someone that shares our taste in music because our music is so important to us. We also make life fun!

 

[Insania]

...On a side note since I don´t feel like opening that post about politics...

Funny, I came back to this Old School forum to see how Clammy's tour went -- only to unzip my fly in that discussion!!

Sometimes a debate can turn brutal, but not that one. These are subjects that are great to discuss with metal folk like you all. Passionate stances are part of the game...

 

[Clammy]

I couldn't have said it better Hawk. You pretty much described me to a "T".

Cheers!

 

[Wyvern]

Here's another story and this really happened the way I tell it. One of my best friends had a new girlfriend. She did not like his music but said very little about it. Then after a few weeks when lying in bed taking a rest, she said to him: " listen; now you can choose, that music or me". He grabs her clothes gives them to her and said: "Goodbye"

My old pal is still into metal

I am who I am, metal is just a part of me. My points of view regarding politics, economy, society, sex, religion, science, etc., are part of what I am. Some may be akin to many of you, some may be absolutely different, some may be weird as can be.

And also I foresee that I'm heading on your friend's path

 

[MURAI]

A common paradigm in metal is the "I'm more underground and better than you" attitude with some belittlement of the masses. I don't think something is great just because it is more obscure. It's annoying to see some metallers bash something soley because it attracts some mainstream attention. Ironically, I think that's just as bad as the trend hoppers who follow what's mainstream at the time just because it's popular.

Another common mindframe you can find in most metallers is a dead serious attitude to music and life in general. I guess it is because its artists deal with some serious subject matter like war and metal illness. Also, it's probably because metal bands express intense emotions and listeners can really relate to it.

Obviously, metal can't get wide mainstream approval since it sounds harsh and deals with rather negative subject matter.

 

[Thraxz]

If you count most nu-metalers, you have to create two more groups.

1: The "rebellious" teenager that things he can show his defiance towards his parents and his anger at the world by listening to "scary music" and acting like they don't care about anyone.

They usually takes their comical attempt at rebelliousness WAY too seriously.

They usually have convinced themselves that they have a better understanding of the music than anyone else.

This sense of superiority usually gets them into musical arguements with other people. They rarely have the brain power or discipline to back up their stand. They attack opposing views with mindless insults.

They commonly underage drink, smoke and get multitudes of meaningless tattoos and piercings only to reinforce their tough guy image. (I'm so grim I have a half pound of stainless steel hanging off of my right earlobe.)

They rarely vote, but when they do, they are rabid followers. They usually are the ones to label the other side "fukcing idoits" but have no clue why they really vote the way they do.

They are almost always claim to be atheistic or satanistic for the sake of rebellion.

They are closet social chameleons who think they are rebelling by conforming to a "extreme" niche . They have no idea what individuality really is.

2: The eclectic halfwit.

They routinely state that they like all music.

They never can tell you why they like anything.

If you play anything that's not on the radio they usually tell you its just noise, not music.

They tend avoid arguements because, well, they "Like everything."

They tend to be either the blind followers of a certain ideology or be hopelessly lost and flip a coin on election day.

They don't talk about politics unless forced to because they might upset someone. They usually agree with what ever any other person is saying at the moment no matter what it is.

They are normally the people who blurt out "I'm a christian" for no apparent reason.

They are social chameleons who have no idea what individuality really is.

 

[Bryant]

I am a libertarian, but lean toward conservative as opposed to liberal. I am also "Christianesque." I am extremely liberal in my views towards the Christian faith and religion and frankly don't get along with most Christians, BUT if the basis of Christianity is believing in God and believing Jesus was the Son of God and he died for our sins, I don't find that hard to swallow. I am not "religious" per se, but I am spiritual and I can feel that only with certain things which include a few Christian based songs. That is my belief and if people want to learn more about it, PM me and I will talk about it in private, but I don't force my spiritual opinion on others.
Having said that, I have been known to send Christian music on file sharing programs because I frankly liked the song and people have got offended. All they have to do is ask me nicely that they don't want that stuff again and I won't do it again. I never intentionally tried to press religion on those people.

I want to make one last statement here:

I wouldn't be considered a Christian by other Christians, and to be honest, except for stating it here, probably not to other metal-heads, but SOME of the Christian standards I do live by (though I actually try to live by the golden rule) on an everyday basis and I am proud to do that. My version of Christianity is pretty fucking liberal if you ask me, but all I know is the wild life that I have lived and to still be alive and have not killed anyone else........ there is more than luck going on there. I consider it "divine intervention." My angel kicks ass !!!


Bryant

 

[Hawk]

Hey thanks everyone for the great reactions to my message. I am happy some of you have recognized themselves in what I wrote.

I have to say I am in complete agreement with AngelWitch73's comments about politics and religion. Besides that, I always feel kinda awkward in expressing myself on these topics because English is not my native tongue.

Most of the time I can't really say things the way I want to. This may perhaps not always be noticeable for those who read the message. But it certainly plays a big role in composing the message. Giving long answers to other people's messages is very time consuming. And therefore those of us who live in Europe are in a way already at a disadvatage.

Most of the time it simply is not worth the trouble

Still, I am very happy many people liked what I wrote. Thanks again for the positive reactions.

 

[The saYer]

some are cool, others are even cooler, I have noticed that we have more than metal in common most of the time, same perspectives and lifestyles and we understand things in the same manner, if they arent metal, most of the time its like what the fuck?

 

[SoundMaster]

but SOME of the Christian standards I do live by (though I actually try to live by the golden rule)

Ironically, the "golden rule" predates Christianity by about 2,000 years.....was first recorded being said in Ancient China and amongst the "mystery cults" of the pre-christian middle East. Christianity "borrowed" it and claimed it as it's own.