Janick Gers - time to hit the high road?

[maestro_al]

When No Prayer for the Dying came out, the first thing I noticed was that the fans lost the magic of Murray/Smith. It's never been the same since....

Even on Brave New World, Gers overshadowed the Murray and Smith combination that made IM so glorious. I don't get it - he's a crap guitarist, he looks like a goldfish, and he should just quit so we can get the original line-up back without the adopted excess baggage that he is.

Perhaps then IM can get back to the glory of Powerslave or Somewhere in Time. Everytime I hear Gers play a solo, it makes me wanna puke. His emotionless fast playing (where he can't even hit the strings with any accuracy or feeling) makes me think that he can get a job over at the Malmsteen camp tuning guitars or something.

Live After Death sums up what we've been missing - IM can get there again one day...oh yes, one day the giants will return. So in the meantime, I'll listen to Edguy or Avantasia to get my thrills.

Mandrake rulz! ProgPower USA 3.0 will be the gig of the decade.

 

[spawn]

All the reviews I have seen from Rock In Rio 3 have said that its a better live album than Live After Death, so Janick obviously didnt screw up that badly!

Besides, he jumps around the stage like a madman, I know Dave and Adrian are much better guitarists, but it doesnt bother me that Janick is there, except when he screws up melody lines sometimes

 

[TinMan666]

*yawn*

 

[Sydo]

Jannick's been in the band longer than Adrian. He's written more songs than Adrian. He rocks like a mutha-fucka on stage.

He's not going anywhere buddy!

 

[spawn]

Originally posted by Sydo
Jannick's been in the band longer than Adrian. He's written more songs than Adrian. He rocks like a mutha-fucka on stage.

 

[phlogiston]

I'll admit that at first Janicks playing didn't "fit" Maiden, but from FOTDish onwards he's been da man. He gave Dave a kick up the ass, and his (Daves) playing improved as well. And he doesn't have his boots nailed to the floor live.

 

[Los4words]

How can you put Jannick in front of Adrian, yes I concede Janick runs around - gee wow, I thought this was a band about music not running.. and to say he is as good a guitar play as Adrian.. what a load of crap.

I think he looks like a great big dumb oaf ! If you've seen him play and spin around.. he looks like a loser.

To quote some really annoying woman : Janick is the weakest link.. goodbye !

 

[phlogiston]

I think you're missing our point Los4. I don't think we're saying get of H (I'm not at least), we're saying keep 'em all.

 

[spawn]

I dont think anyone *ever* said Janick was a better guitar player than Adrian

 

[Sydo]

No way is Jannick better than Adrian.
But at the moment (and for the past 12 years) he has contributed much more to the band than anyone else besides Steve.

 

[Wrathchild]

Janick co-wrote some of the best stuff on BNW. Granted, the album would have sounded closer to vintage Maiden if Adrian had contributed more, but some of Gers' efforts (especially Dream of Mirrors) still amaze me two years later. I don't play guitar, so I can't comment on who's the better axeman, but I know what I like.

W

 

[maestro_al]

I guess I remember the days of old where Adrian Smith would pull out solos like those on the Powerslave or Somewhere in Time (surely the guitar solo on Stranger in a Strange Land has to be one of the best guitar pieces ever written?).

Janick Gers is sloppy and I don't rate his song writing skills either. This obviously reflects fairly when the IM albums with Janick Gers are the worst IM albums in their entire discography. It doesn't matter how much he runs about on stage. That doesn't make X Factor, FOTD, or Virtual XI better albums than Killers, Powerslave etc. The debate discusses Gers as a musician, and the opinion is, IM would probably be better without him.

Yes, Brave New World was a good effort, but does it really stand well against Beast or Somewhere in Time? I think not. The 'return to form' was due to the comeback of Bruce Dickinson and Adrian Smith. Janick Gers had WAY too much play time.

Look - from No Prayer for the Dying onwards, IM lost their edge. In hindsight, it wasn't just Blaze Bailey because Silicon Messiah turned out to be a gem. And in the meantime, Bruce and Adrian created CHEMICAL WEDDING - that has to be one of the best metal albums of all time. Anyone disagree with that??!!

Adrian Smith 1 - Janick Gers 0...no more injury time.

P.S. Rock in Rio better than Live After Death? Is that serious....?

 

[phlogiston]

I don't think Janick was solely to blame for the 90's. Steve is the driving force of the band, and he made some very poor decisions in the period.

And for the record, I think BNW stands up very well against earlier efforts.

 

[Los4words]

My point is, Adrian is generically better (we seem to all agree). Yes like everyone else I do appreciate Janick's efforts, no doubt he lifted the band at a crucial stage.. I have nothing at all against him but I do hold to the point he is not an inspired player and sometimes IMO he comes across a little simple or dorky (maybe not the right words - shit who am I to point the finger...) I dunno, I think I like the rooted to the spot Adrian and Dave stuff, lets Bruce go sick a bit... I didn't enjoy them in '92 anymore because Janick climbed up the speaker stack...maybe it's just me (getting old and boring or something).

He is Bruce's mate, which is interesting because how does / did their replationships work, i.e. Bruce goes, Janick stays, Adrian in and out then plays with Bruce, it's such a jumble...

If you want to talk about something juicy talk about Bruce and Steve... geez, reckon they don't have full on blues... "differences of opinion...." like to be a fly on the wall sometimes I reckon. Some of the things said when Bruce left... make your ears burn !

 

[spawn]

Adrian is a better songwriter and guitarist, his contributions on BNW were the best songs!

I dont know, I like Janick, he gets too much shit from Maiden fans I think, and I always like the underdog Plus he runs around on stage, which doesnt sound like much, but you can tell he really gets into and you have to be made of stone to not appreciate that

If it was up to me, Maiden would get put on hold until Adrian, Bruce and Roy Z write another album together!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

maestro_al: That is your opinion, fair enough, but there are many fans out there that DO like the newer stuff. "The X Factor" is one of, if not my favourite Maiden album, and Janick co-wrote more than half of it. I do agree that Maiden have lost the vibe and the edge that they had in the 80's, but thats just the way things are. If their sound does not progress, and they keep doing the same old thing, of course it is going to loose its magic, even if the new material is just as good.

Adrian is no doubt a better guitarist than Janick, but they are both great writers, so it would make sense to keep them both in the band, and after all, Adrian isn't any more a part of Maiden than Janick, and vice versa, so it would be a little unfair to just give one of them the flick because a better guitarist is available.

 

[maestro_al]

Blitzkrieg: I understand that some people such as yourselves like The X Factor and Virtual XI better than, say, Piece of Mind or Number of the Beast, and that's cool. BUT let's discuss it this way: Brave New World would have been almost EXACTLY the same had Adrian Smith NOT returned. He was given very little artistic presence/space, and I truly believe that this was a mistake.

BNW, although good, could have been better - how many people will be listening to BNW in 20 years? Is it a timeless classic a la Beast or Killers? Perhaps...perhaps not. But think of it this way - had Adrian Smith been given more 'room' to be productive, we could have ended up with a real masterpiece on our hands, and not a slight improvement over the "Bailey" days.

I don't necessarily want to see Janick Gers thrown out because he stepped up to the plate and did the best he could when Adrian left, but now that everyone's playing happy families again, how about letting Adrian contribute like he did for Bruce and Roy Z??? I assume everyone has heard Chemical Wedding? Is there any doubt that CW is timeless, along with early Maiden? This proves that the magic can still be captured when given a chance.

Even with Adrian back in the group and on the tours, Janick still plays his parts in The Trooper and Hallowed Be Thy Name, to name but a few brilliant live songs. That is a real shame don't you think? OK if you love Janick Gers then great, but why does he need to take over the show?

Let's hope the next album gives everyone (including Janick) equal billing.

 

[Mark]

I have to disagree on one point: BNW would NOT have sounded the same had Adrian not returned (IMO). He 'grounds' the music in a way that no other member does - if you compare the previous four albums, where they musically went a bit 'loose' at time (read: sloppy), BNW doesn't do that as often, and I attribute this to Adrian. Maybe not dependent entirely on his performances, but more on his attitude to music.

And sadly, I think Dave has slipped a bit since Adrian left

 

[phlogiston]

Here's my take on it:

AoB - H played guitar and co-wrote 2 songs (Road to Hell & Welcome to the pit)

CW - H played guitar and co-wrote 2 songs (Killing Floor & Machine Men)

BNW - H played guitar and co-wrote 2 songs (Wicker Man and Fallen Angel)

The great differentiator between BNW and (CW & AoB) is a) Bruce's writing and b)Roy Z

H is the only consistent thing between them..

 

[Sydo]

Originally posted by maestro_al
But think of it this way - had Adrian Smith been given more 'room' to be productive, we could have ended up with a real masterpiece on our hands,

how about letting Adrian contribute like he did for Bruce and Roy Z???

As Phlogiston said, you cannot attribute the success of Accident Of Birth or The Chemical Wedding to Adrian. He only wrote as much as he did on Brave New World - 2 songs.

In fact, he was only a hired gun for Accident Of Birth, coming into the band just before recording and after all songs (except Road To Hell and Welcome To The Pit) had been written.