Key changes (Music Theory)?

[Executioner213]

I don't know where exactly to put this in the forum, so I'll start here.

I'm questioning some of my music theory...especially since I'm mostly self taugh. So...lets assume I know nothing of this at all and am a total n00b (for the sake of absorbing the most info and finding if I have a misconception).

Are there any real guidelines to changing keys? Does it have to follow within your intervals/scalar sequences?

Don't end with my question, all input is welcome.

 

[Greatdeceiver]

Ill make a quote from another website "I've been told that when modulating its best to end on the V chord of the key you're modulating to, or to do chromatic/diminished runs in between".

Basically doing chromatic runs in between keys works best and is very subtle since there is no harmony there whatsoever

 

[Metaltastic]

Ill make a quote from another website "I've been told that when modulating its best to end on the V chord of the key you're modulating to, or to do chromatic/diminished runs in between".

Basically doing chromatic runs in between keys works best and is very subtle since there is no harmony there whatsoever

Ugghh, but those to me are just way too much of a cop out, like a magician telling everyone to turn around before he does his "trick," and then turn back when he's done Case in point, the transition to the elevator-music part at 3:08 in Opeth's "Baying of the Hounds", good god how ridiculous and out-of-place that lick is

 

[STINNETT]

I don't know where exactly to put this in the forum, so I'll start here.

I'm questioning some of my music theory...especially since I'm mostly self taugh. So...lets assume I know nothing of this at all and am a total n00b (for the sake of absorbing the most info and finding if I have a misconception).

Are there any real guidelines to changing keys? Does it have to follow within your intervals/scalar sequences?

Don't end with my question, all input is welcome.

Are you talking about following chord changes with a lead guitar for example?

Because it's all dependant on the context and how the chords relate to each other.

 

[Greatdeceiver]

Ugghh, but those to me are just way too much of a cop out, like a magician telling everyone to turn around before he does his "trick," and then turn back when he's done Case in point, the transition to the elevator-music part at 3:08 in Opeth's "Baying of the Hounds", good god how ridiculous and out-of-place that lick is

well it CAN be made subtle...

 

[John_C]

Ugghh, but those to me are just way too much of a cop out, like a magician telling everyone to turn around before he does his "trick," and then turn back when he's done Case in point, the transition to the elevator-music part at 3:08 in Opeth's "Baying of the Hounds", good god how ridiculous and out-of-place that lick is

i love that riff!!!!

that definitely is no cop out, and it aint exactly chromatic either.

it is kinda atonal though, i'll give you that

 

[Damphire]

I'm gonna be a little extremist here but... there are no rules when expressing yourself through music. If it sounds right to you, then it good.

That being said, there are a lot of useful tricks to change keys:

- Change to a key/scale which contains the same notes you're playing (IE the first 6 notes of ionian are going to be the same of mixolidian, so you can go from A mixolidian to A ionian if there are no different notes in your riff)
- Follow the note changes with exactly the same scale but in different positions
- Follow the note changes with exactly the same position but in different scales (IE Arch Enemy - Hybrids of Steel)
- use chromatics
- Use harmonic minor scales or pentatonic to simplify or add new notes that may be useful as a bridge
- do the classical "everything up one note" key change

Or you be Opeth and do anything ;-)

 

[lost_within]

Yeah if you want to modulate from the major or minor key it's common to go into the dominant key which is the 5th degree of your scale, so ending on chord V (imperfect cadance) would be chord I of the new key. Generally ending on the root chord makes the music sound complete and finished (mostly in a perfect cadance.. chord V then I).

 

[jacare]

The basic theory sayd that you "can" use the IV or V from the tone you're modulating to. But you always need to do it with good taste man... sometimes rules don't apply. A jazz professor told me to use the Vb of the V (or the IIb) replacing the V itself.

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

Are there any real guidelines to changing keys? Does it have to follow within your intervals/scalar sequences?

Nope, it depends on the song or riff and the effect you want to do. But if the "problem" is a simple modulation I would not change the scale type. But it depends on the effect you wanna do.

But what is that V thing I read about? Probably a guitarist thing?

 

[jacare]

But what is that V thing I read about? Probably a guitarist thing?

5th grade ?

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

Ah, it's a roman number?

 

[jacare]

Ah, it's a roman number?

yep

 

[Moonlight_Seeker]

So when you write :

The basic theory sayd that you "can" use the IV or V from the tone you're modulating to.

... and I will presume you're a guitarist for some reason... basically you're saying to simply go a string higher or lower?

 

[Executioner213]

Are you talking about following chord changes with a lead guitar for example?

Because it's all dependant on the context and how the chords relate to each other.

Either for lead or melody...moreso melody though.

I guess in context of knowing where to go next in a chord progression.

 

[Damphire]

... and I will presume you're a guitarist for some reason... basically you're saying to simply go a string higher or lower?

mmm, noup. He's not talking about note intervals, he means scale steps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_mode ;-)

 

[RemoWilliams]

Cadences are always useful. Or, use secondary dominants to move toward the new tonality. Or, prep for the change ahead of time a measure or so before. Or, just jump right into it. It all depends on the vibe your going for.

 

[LydonB]

secondary dominants ftw! A really easy way to modulate is to just use common chords between two keys that you want to use.

 

[RemoWilliams]

Indeed. One thing that always messed with my brain are secondary diminished sevenths. I had two different theory books explain them in totally different ways. Plus, sometimes they loop over to being either another diatonic chord.
But yeah, borrowed chords help too. Again, all depends on context and what your aiming for.

 

[Executioner213]

One main reason I ask the question is I realized I find myself always stumped as where to go with things, and I feel I'm too dependent on going up a 4th (ex. - E to A). I don't necessarily want blues progression, I kinda know the whole I-IV-V thing enough to know thats not what I want and I don't really play blues anyway.

I guess I never really disseminate what I am changing to when I come up with stuff on the fly, but I'm hoping if I am intuitive enough to know a few options to try, rather than just feeling confined between what I know and "what sounds good" (meaning I don't think to go out of a safety zone that I always go to, like up a 4th). I dunno...does that make sense?