Kick drum conflicting with floor toms ?

[agentmetal]

Hello !

On real drum tracks, I often end up with conflicts between the kick drum and the floor tom on early mixes. Both elements often have strong content in the 70-100 Hz region and nasty buildups sometimes occur when both are played at the same time, causing the whole mix to fart.

Do you experience this problem sometimes and if you do, what's your preferred solution ?
Do you EQ the floor tom to Tetris it around the kick ? (this method often leads me to pretty shallow tom sounds that wouldn't fit many metal recordings IMO...)
Do you duck the floor tom by sidechaining it from the kick ?
Do you automate volumes and/or EQs ?
Do you move the offending note(s) manually to prevent positive interference (ie. prevent the waveforms from adding) ?

I usually do a mix of the two latter approaches, but I really don't know whether this is a common issue, at least with real drums... I haven't found anything on this topic with Sneap Search !

Thanks for your feedback !

 

[Fox Mulder]

Sometimes automation, sometimes sidechaining.

 

[drew_drummer]

EQ and compression - give the kick priority over the space. What you want (imo) from the toms is the attack, and some mid-range tone that carries the pitch. A lot of times you don't need the low-end rumble from any of the toms, again, imo.

 

[Strachan of D]

cut something on the kick boost it on the floor tom and vice versa

 

[Clark Kent]

I used to have this problem when I wasn't panning my toms wide enough. Some professionals even go as far as 100% left and right for toms. Try spreading them somewhere between 80%-40% width and it shouldn't be conflicting with the kick since kick is C. Other than that... I dunno. I usually do NOTHING to my toms in real life or with SD2. I sometimes add a GClip and clip off the biggest peaks without losing the attack.

 

[amarshism]

I just pan the floor tom

 

[slo77y]

Do you experience this problem sometimes and if you do, what's your preferred solution ?

rarely, usually when a mix is well balanced its a non-issue.


Do you EQ the floor tom to Tetris it around the kick ? (this method often leads me to pretty shallow tom sounds that wouldn't fit many metal recordings IMO...)


i TUNE the drums so it doesnt occur.


Do you duck the floor tom by sidechaining it from the kick ?


hell, no

Do you automate volumes and/or EQs ?


volumes yes, EQs rarely


Do you move the offending note(s) manually to prevent positive interference (ie. prevent the waveforms from adding) ?


of course not, this would lead to phase issues with the rest of the mics

 

[RedDog]

I automate my bass guitar down during huge tom rolls. The focus is on the drummer here.

 

[luismars]

Use a multiband compressor sidechained to remove the unwanted frequencies

 

[Charles J]

haven't had this problem that I can recall... I'm also from the "LCR" school of panning so my floor tom(s) are always hard right.

I DO have this problem when the drummer has say, two floor toms, but the way I like toms to sound EQ wise its not always an issue..

 

[bryan_kilco]

I normally pan a 3-tom kit something like 30-40% left, 10-15% left, and 30-40% right.

How do you guys deal with the middle tom which is closer to center?

 

[mva801]

I've found the best panning for a 3 tom kit is one Left, one center, one right. Almost 100% of the time the drums should be tuned so that the floor tom is a higher note than the kick, therefore it shouldn't be much of an issue. Always start at the source - check and tune your drums first. Then try panning, then volume rides. If you still have a problem..... you shouldn't...

 

[luismars]

I never pan them 100% LCR, I listen to the stereo image and place them where they are, placing the OH perpendicular to a line between the snare an the middle tom helps a lot.

 

[006]

haven't had this problem that I can recall... I'm also from the "LCR" school of panning so my floor tom(s) are always hard right.

I DO have this problem when the drummer has say, two floor toms, but the way I like toms to sound EQ wise its not always an issue..

I've always wondered how someone that uses the LCR approach would tackle 4 or 5 toms, as in how would each tom be panned? With 3 toms it's easy to figure T1 L, T2 C and T3 R; but with 4 or 5 there would need to be some panning between those positions otherwise they are right on top of each other at some point, right? With 5 I could see T1 L, T2 50L, T3 C, T4 50R and T5 R. So I guess my question is just about 4 toms

 

[amarshism]

if theres 5 toms im L-50L-just off C-50R-R
I also automate the tom panning

 

[Charles J]

I've always wondered how someone that uses the LCR approach would tackle 4 or 5 toms, as in how would each tom be panned? With 3 toms it's easy to figure T1 L, T2 C and T3 R; but with 4 or 5 there would need to be some panning between those positions otherwise they are right on top of each other at some point, right? With 5 I could see T1 L, T2 50L, T3 C, T4 50R and T5 R. So I guess my question is just about 4 toms

Hahaha, good question. And I really am the epitome of an LCR guy BUT there are ALWAYS ocassions when a different approach has to be taken for a certain instrument or group of instruments.

If a drummer has 5 toms, I'll do my usual 3 toms that are LCR and the other two will be somewhere in the 'no-no' zone, hahaha.... i mean, c'mon...there are no 'real rules' i just like the sound of LCR, hahaha..

i find L or R @ 45 sound perfect to me in the case of toms....

 

[006]

Hahaha, good question. And I really am the epitome of an LCR guy BUT there are ALWAYS ocassions when a different approach has to be taken for a certain instrument or group of instruments.

If a drummer has 5 toms, I'll do my usual 3 toms that are LCR and the other two will be somewhere in the 'no-no' zone, hahaha.... i mean, c'mon...there are no 'real rules' i just like the sound of LCR, hahaha..

i find L or R @ 45 sound perfect to me in the case of toms....

Fo sho, thanks, was just curious how LCR guys approach those setups.

 

[Charles J]

Fo sho, thanks, was just curious how LCR guys approach those setups.

never a problem bro =D

toms are usually the only thing you'll find in my mixes that ARENT either L, C or R....

ALSO, I always spot mic the hats, ride and china and THOSE will be panned in around 80 or so except the china, which i like panned in a little more.....

 

[amarshism]

Im becoming more and more an lcr guy as well although if it's c it's never really c. Just off. I also don't care about Tom panning. Is that bad? I just automate to make the roll catch my ear. If its just two toms in the roll regardless of where they're normally panne I try and get as much stereo spread as possible.

 

[agentmetal]

Thanks a lot guys ! Yeah, I didn't record those drums but they should definitely have been tuned higher than what they are...