Kick drum setup for triggering

[crosstalk]

Simply: How do you guys set up your kick drum that is going to be triggered?

I'm coming to realize that I trigger my kick 100% and don't use the miced track at all. I'm also finding that while not horrible, the kick is still in the overheads. When I quantize I often have to do the kick separate and would like to keep it out as best possible.

I swear Brain Hood posted how he had his kick set up that he triggers and is able to do fast heel-toe on. Maybe he just showed it or mentioned it in one of his videos. Either way, I can't find the info at the moment. If you read this and can share Brian, that would be awesome!

Anyway, I want to deaden the kick as best possible and have it setup to play and trigger as best possible. So what should I use to dampen it and how tight should the head be? Anything else to keep in mind?

Thanks!

 

[ahjteam]

blankets on the outside and foam on the inside or alternatively use the kick from e-kit

 

[crosstalk]

blankets on the outside and foam on the inside or alternatively use the kick from e-kit

If it was just me playing, I'd go with the e-kit kick. I have a feeling drummers would find it "uncool" or some other excuse. Plus I would rather have the kick drum there serving some purpose instead of just taking up space somewhere.

 

[Shaun Werle]

are you talk about cutting the bleed of the kick in overheads? Put a High pass on cut at 800hz & You should be fine, but if not just throw blankets like said and also try to avoid the wooden or plastic beater sides they tend to cut through more than the foam ones!

 

[darthjujuu]

stuff it literally to the brim with towels and blankets so that it's jam-packed. the only sound left is the "click" of the beater slapping the skin. this also makes for super accurate triggering. feels pretty nice too, to play, compared to an e-kit kick.

 

[soundsunderground]

http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Hart-Dynamics-Kontrol-Screen-Magnum-Drumhead-?sku=445444

These are your answer my friend. They are silent. Just put a DDrum or other brand of trigger on it and you're golden.

 

[YanikT]

are you talk about cutting the bleed of the kick in overheads? Put a High pass on cut at 800hz & You should be fine, but if not just throw blankets like said and also try to avoid the wooden or plastic beater sides they tend to cut through more than the foam ones!

I think thats a bad idea cause it would also cut some 'bottom' from toms and snare.. Please correct me if I'm wrong ! And those drumheads are the best option IMO

 

[darthjujuu]

I think thats a bad idea cause it would also cut some 'bottom' from toms and snare.. Please correct me if I'm wrong ! And those drumheads are the best option IMO

overheads are gonna have the lows filtered out in just about any drum tracking scenario, as long as there's also close mics. the closer a mic is to the source, the more low-end it picks up. mesh heads are sick.

 

[YanikT]

overheads are gonna have the lows filtered out in just about any drum tracking scenario, as long as there's also close mics. the closer a mic is to the source, the more low-end it picks up. mesh heads are sick.

Do you often use overheads for cymbals only? or do you cut the lows to keep only the mids and highs? I am used to keeping the overheads just as they are as long as I don't have any phase problem.. and what do you mean by mesh heads?

 

[darthjujuu]

Do you often use overheads for cymbals only? or do you cut the lows to keep only the mids and highs? I am used to keeping the overheads just as they are as long as I don't have any phase problem.. and what do you mean by mesh heads?

see soundsunderground's post about mesh heads.

and it depends on the style of music, but for most of the guys on here, overheads are gonne be highpassed anywhere from 400-800hz or even higher. the heavier the music, the more the overheads are going to be just cymbal mics. in some cases, engineers will go out of their way to keep the drums OUT of the overheads...i believe andy has been known to sidechain a snaregate to the overheads so that whenever the snare gets hit it will be "ducked" out of the overheads.

whereas on the other hand, glenn fricker will want to create a big natural wide drum sound by getting alot of the shells in the overheads. it depends on the sound you're after, your room, and how much control you need over the mix.

if the mix is less squashed/cluttered and the drums are less technical, then alot of times it makes more sense to let some more of the kit into the overheads to give it some air/width/shiny top end.

 

[YanikT]

see soundsunderground's post about mesh heads.

and it depends on the style of music, but for most of the guys on here, overheads are gonne be highpassed anywhere from 400-800hz or even higher. the heavier the music, the more the overheads are going to be just cymbal mics. in some cases, engineers will go out of their way to keep the drums OUT of the overheads...i believe andy has been known to sidechain a snaregate to the overheads so that whenever the snare gets hit it will be "ducked" out of the overheads.

whereas on the other hand, glenn fricker will want to create a big natural wide drum sound by getting alot of the shells in the overheads. it depends on the sound you're after, your room, and how much control you need over the mix.

if the mix is less squashed/cluttered and the drums are less technical, then alot of times it makes more sense to let some more of the kit into the overheads to give it some air/width/shiny top end.

Wow definitely gonna try this, didn't see it that way

so if it's really fast and heavy and technical, it's good to get everything clear and apart from the rest ? I'm listening a lot of The Faceless nowadays and I think it's the way they mixed the drums

And do you know how that post about mesh heads is called? I really want to read on it ! Thanks for your precious advice !

 

[YanikT]

Okay, so you quantize the overheads as well ?

 

[Uladyne]

Probably the best way to keep the kick out of the overheads is to not play it. If you're quantizing to grid and using a sample you can throw it in later. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Sinister Mephisto]

Cymbals go lower than 800hz guys. if you cut that high, you'll lose the bottom end of the cymbals. If you can make it sound good though, then awesome.

 

[darthjujuu]

Cymbals go lower than 800hz guys. if you cut that high, you'll lose the bottom end of the cymbals. If you can make it sound good though, then awesome.

i definitely don't cut that high, but i've seen guys on this forum say that they do.

and Yanik - yea if you're going for a faceless-esque drum sound, you're gonna want to get every piece of the kit as separate as possible. like greg said, programming the kick (and maybe the toms if there's no real groovy tom parts...just fast fills) would definitely be a very good idea. little or no room ambience...and the overheads are virtually just a "sizzle" that sits on top of the mix.

post something once you've got it down and let's see how it sounds!

 

[darthjujuu]

Okay, so you quantize the overheads as well ?

ofcourse, always. group the entire kit (or whatevers audible in the overheads). the most common exception is to leave the kick ungrouped if you can dampen/mute it enough to keep it virtually entirely out of the other mics...which was, i'm presuming, the original point of the OP. haha

 

[plague_rider]

Pack that kick drum!! I find pillows/jackets work best... or even a duvet!! dampen the shit out of it... and then something (maybe another duvet draped over the top of it to keep it out of the headphones

 

[YanikT]

ofcourse, always. group the entire kit (or whatevers audible in the overheads). the most common exception is to leave the kick ungrouped if you can dampen/mute it enough to keep it virtually entirely out of the other mics...which was, i'm presuming, the original point of the OP. haha

Is it possible to reduce the kick/snare/toms from the overheads by keeping their real sounds (not the samples, of course) and switch their phase?
I suppose we still hear it a little bit and my guess is 'that sounds like crap' but who knows

 

[darthjujuu]

Is it possible to reduce the kick/snare/toms from the overheads by keeping their real sounds (not the samples, of course) and switch their phase?
I suppose we still hear it a little bit and my guess is 'that sounds like crap' but who knows

absolutely not. the only thing you could do is gate sidechaining...but that'd get a little nutty and pumpy i think if you're trying to gate every drum out. and you'd still need to edit with all mic'ed tracks grouped, anyway.

simply put, if you're trying to find a way to edit drums un-grouped, you absolutely cannot do it without muting every shell down to nothing. unless you just get superior and program everything.

 

[YanikT]

I'm currently mixing a rock band 'cause my teacher gave me the tracks but I absolutely cannot diffuse it sorry..

For the moment, the kick sounds terrible alone but is ok in the mix, the snare is okay but could be improved, I'm working on it haha, the toms sound fat I like it like that, and for the overheads, I am trying to keep the cymbals and ride only but the snare is louder than the ride in the overheads..

Should I keep the snare in it or should I try to duck it out ? I tried to tweak the gate to keep the cymbals but it's definitely not working that way and I can easily hear it pumping..

You mentionned sidechaining the gate with the snare but I don't really get it Help !