kick panning and drummer vs. listener perspective.

[Ermz]

Yeah, I'll h/p the overheads and that gets rid of most of the kick for sure. The snare is so much more obvious when it's off center.

But the true nemesis of all drum recording is the fucking hi-hat. If you're aiming the overheads straight down, one advantage of the "SAE method" is that it keeps the (drummer's) left overhead farther away from the hat.

Not sure that I'd necessarily recommend it over any other method by default, but it's a good option with the right kit setup.

Totally agree. There's a local studio I used to frequent where the owner just has a set of 'recording hats' at the ready because most drummers just come in with these absurdly loud things that totally obliterate the OHs.

 

[rhythmicpunisher]

are we dorks?

 

[FASTFISTS]

I Agree with Andy 100%
It should always be from the audience perspective.NOT THOSE DAMN DRUMMERS! hahaha
Seriosly ,Audience per. after all they are the vast majority that are buying your material.And when they go to your shows,(Unless your some EMO jackass band where the drummer plays backward), thats the way they'll hear you!

 

[DougDoppler]

there are 2 ways to present drums.. drummer perspective,

Now I do realize that I am about to piss of a few drummers, but in fact the universe does not rotate around them. I realize this might be a bit shocking, but while I'm at it, the world is not flat. Sorry guys...

or audience/listener perspective

OK, IMO, the audience (those people who actually listen to our music while we play it, and invest their hard-earned dollars to actually buy it) hears us how? Classical music is recorded how?

On a slightly more realistic note, I worked with Atma Anur (did a million Shrapnel Records discs) for years, and he had very clear reasons about why he wanted things from drummer's perspective. In all practicle reality, Andy is spot on, you can always present the drums as you need to for the mix. When working with a drummer like Atma, if he wants it that way, I am happy to yield to his vision, as if I knew so much about bloody drums, I'd be hittng them and placing the mics myself. We did the drums on Nu Instrumetal slightly ghetto - a bunch of 57s, a 52 on the kick (I LOVE THAT MIC), and a pair of Audio Technica OHs. He knew just where to place the mics to make the most of it. He also uses a double pedal which in the studio eliminated the panning issue - dead center regardless of perspective. As much as I really dislike the unrealistic panning of drummers perspective, you really don't want to hear your drummer bitch about for the rest of your life. I feel that drummers perspective on a subconscious level does not feel like rock, as rock is best experienced from the audiences perspective. I once heard the Grateful Dead from backstage, and trust me, audience perspective is a good thing!

 

[EtherForBreakfast]

Great thread, thanks for all the replies.

Black Sucre - Gracias for that link - that's GOLD, Jerry. GOLD.

I will stick with audience perspective.

 

[silverwulf]

I've heard guys who swear by both methods...panning to the drummers and the audience perspective. Usually the drummer perspective guys are the ones who love to air drum to the albums and have a hard time doing it reversed (unless they're left handed), where as the rationale for the audience perspective guys I know is pretty much along the lines of..."Why pan to the drummer perspective? He's the only guy in the world who hears the song that way"...

Seems like most people try to keep the snare pretty centered, but there's a lot of disagreeance over how spead the toms should be as well as overheads. How far do you guys typically find yourself spreading out the toms and overheads?

 

[prowlergrig]

i've already explained in another thread why i, as a listener, prefer drummer's perspective - in short, esp. when listening on headphones, i find it natural to picture myself standing surrounded by the band, near the drums.
i find it easier to listen to drums recorded in drummer's perspective.

 

[prowlergrig]

"Why pan to the drummer perspective? He's the only guy in the world who hears the song that way"

no he's not - the other bandmembers, especially the frontman, hear it that way when facing the audience. as i said, it comes natural to me to picture myself in the middle of the band, surrounded by the music, so...

 

[~BURNY~]

Not to mention I've never heard obvious panning on a live PA system (other than special fx), maybe that's just me, but I don't see what's the point while the audience do not always stand in the supposed "sweetspot".
On the other hand I can understand that some people prefer one perspective over the other on a recording. Just not such a great deal for me nor the average listener who don'teven how to place his so called hi-fi speakers correctly. I prefer make the musicians (clients) happy...

 

[JeffTD]

I tried the whole "listeners perspective" for a while... I didn't like it as much as drummers perspective; mainly because I write my drumtracks by 'airdrumming' them out first.

 

[Frank'nfurter]

We prefer drummers perspective and NEVER pan the kicks.

 

[EtherForBreakfast]

Obviously the playing has a lot to do with it, but I think the drums on Windowpane are flawless for rock drums. That entire kit was just captured perfectly.