Hi everyone,
after playing around trying to get closer to the Testament drumsound, I was really happy with what I got and was airdrumming like a spazz
The Testament sound is "audience perspective" as opposed to "drummer's perspective" and so I changed it around to get the "drummer perspective" for better airdrumming. Yes, I sound like a dumbass, but it taught me something interesting, so bear with me
The situation:
The drums had been EQed and put to reverbs, so when I turned the perspective around, something was off and at first I couldnt really point my finger on it until I noticed that I still had the feeling of standing in front of the kit, just that it was a left handed drummer now.
The analysis:
The difference between a true representation of the drummer's perspective and a "left handed drummer from audience perspective" is the way the drums are positioned in the front-to-back plane. If you are a regular right-handed drummer, your hihat will be to your left, close to you and your low floor tom will be on your right close to you, while the higher floor tom will be further away and not as far right. Your rack toms will be in front of you and also further away. They will also be higher up than the snare or the floor toms.
On the audience perspective it is the exact opposite:
- floor tom is left and far back and low
- rack toms are closer and positioned higher in the stereo spectrum
- obviously everything is L/R reversed
The theory:
If you look at how positioning in the stereo spectrum is achieved, only a few simple rules apply:
a) sounds that you want to position higher up need less low frequencies and more high frequencies
b) sounds that you want to position lower need more low fequencies and less highs
c) sounds that you want to position further back need more reverb and/or need to be less loud than sounds you want to be closer
d) sounds that should be closer need less reverb and/or should be louder than sounds that you want to be further back.
There's not a lot more to it. If you want to know details, read David Gibson's "The Art Of Mixing". It's damn good, so you should read it anyway
The "real world" application
Real world in this case means using DFHS, but the concept remains the same for recorded drums, too. Just make sure the OHs work for you and not against you (phase!) ...
On a drumset with Kick, Snare, 5 Toms, HH and Cymbals this is what I did for the drummer's perspective.
a) I set up a Dark Plate (Audio Damage Reverence) and rolled off some highs and lows. This is my "whole drumset ambience".
b) I then set up another plate (CSR Plate) and rolled off some highs and lows. This is my "snare plate".
c) All the drums were panned positioned the following way:
KD: C
SD-T: C
SD-B: C
RT1: L35
RT2: L15
RT3: R35
FT1: R50
FT2: R56
HH: L59
OH: L82/R82
AMB: L82/R82
As you can see, I restricted the OHs to L82/R82 because otherwise the drums would have sounded unnaturally wide. I noticed that when I A/Bed my original drums with the Testament drums - mine were wider, so I narrowed them a bit.
It actually makes a lot of sense, because when mixing for width, you don't necessarily need to pan everything wide. On the contrary: placing very few elements wide will often give you a wider sound, so the L100/R100 can be reserved for guitars.
So what this panning gave me was the L/R positioning of the drumkit as if I sat on the drumthrone.
Next up was reverbs and I simply sent different amounts of each drum to my "drum ambience" aux to create a front/back feel.
Kick: no verb
Snare: goes to Snare Plate with long pre-delay for added "tail"
HiHat: no verb (it's right next to you)
Racktom 1: a good amount of plate
Racktom 2: a bit more plate than Racktom 1 because it usually is a bit further from the drummer
Racktom 3: a bit less plate than Racktom 2, cause it is a bit closer than 2, but further than 1
Floortom 1: a lot less plate than Racktom 2, even less than Racktom 1, because it is closer to the drummer
Floortom 2: almost no plate, because it is closest
OHs: also got some plate, because they are not very close to the drummer either
After this was done, it still didn't sound convincing enough, so I played with the volumes and made everything that was closer louder and everything that was further softer.
This gave me a lot of left/right and front/back image already, but I wanted to have a feeling of up/down on the kit too. For example the low tom needs to be a lot closer to the ground than the cymbals or the high toms. So I started taking out lows for everything that was supposed to be placed up and I added lows or took out highs for everything that was supposed to be placed down.
Eventually I was very happy with how I got my drums placed in the stereo field. It's not perfect, but it made airdrumming so much more enjoyable ...
Check it out here (if your room isn't treated, you might have trouble hearing the subtleties):
http://www.faderhead.com/blogs/mp3/faderhead_panning_reverb_placement.mp3
I am aware that a lot of times this kind of panning does not work for a full mix, but it basically stumbled upon it by accident and it is handy to be able to do it IF you need it for an open mix. Obviously it works exactly the same way for "audience perspective" just reversed ...
Hope this is of use to anyone!
after playing around trying to get closer to the Testament drumsound, I was really happy with what I got and was airdrumming like a spazz
The Testament sound is "audience perspective" as opposed to "drummer's perspective" and so I changed it around to get the "drummer perspective" for better airdrumming. Yes, I sound like a dumbass, but it taught me something interesting, so bear with me The situation:
The drums had been EQed and put to reverbs, so when I turned the perspective around, something was off and at first I couldnt really point my finger on it until I noticed that I still had the feeling of standing in front of the kit, just that it was a left handed drummer now.
The analysis:
The difference between a true representation of the drummer's perspective and a "left handed drummer from audience perspective" is the way the drums are positioned in the front-to-back plane. If you are a regular right-handed drummer, your hihat will be to your left, close to you and your low floor tom will be on your right close to you, while the higher floor tom will be further away and not as far right. Your rack toms will be in front of you and also further away. They will also be higher up than the snare or the floor toms.
On the audience perspective it is the exact opposite:
- floor tom is left and far back and low
- rack toms are closer and positioned higher in the stereo spectrum
- obviously everything is L/R reversed
The theory:
If you look at how positioning in the stereo spectrum is achieved, only a few simple rules apply:
a) sounds that you want to position higher up need less low frequencies and more high frequencies
b) sounds that you want to position lower need more low fequencies and less highs
c) sounds that you want to position further back need more reverb and/or need to be less loud than sounds you want to be closer
d) sounds that should be closer need less reverb and/or should be louder than sounds that you want to be further back.
There's not a lot more to it. If you want to know details, read David Gibson's "The Art Of Mixing". It's damn good, so you should read it anyway
The "real world" application
Real world in this case means using DFHS, but the concept remains the same for recorded drums, too. Just make sure the OHs work for you and not against you (phase!) ...
On a drumset with Kick, Snare, 5 Toms, HH and Cymbals this is what I did for the drummer's perspective.
a) I set up a Dark Plate (Audio Damage Reverence) and rolled off some highs and lows. This is my "whole drumset ambience".
b) I then set up another plate (CSR Plate) and rolled off some highs and lows. This is my "snare plate".
c) All the drums were panned positioned the following way:
KD: C
SD-T: C
SD-B: C
RT1: L35
RT2: L15
RT3: R35
FT1: R50
FT2: R56
HH: L59
OH: L82/R82
AMB: L82/R82
As you can see, I restricted the OHs to L82/R82 because otherwise the drums would have sounded unnaturally wide. I noticed that when I A/Bed my original drums with the Testament drums - mine were wider, so I narrowed them a bit.
It actually makes a lot of sense, because when mixing for width, you don't necessarily need to pan everything wide. On the contrary: placing very few elements wide will often give you a wider sound, so the L100/R100 can be reserved for guitars.
So what this panning gave me was the L/R positioning of the drumkit as if I sat on the drumthrone.
Next up was reverbs and I simply sent different amounts of each drum to my "drum ambience" aux to create a front/back feel.
Kick: no verb
Snare: goes to Snare Plate with long pre-delay for added "tail"
HiHat: no verb (it's right next to you)
Racktom 1: a good amount of plate
Racktom 2: a bit more plate than Racktom 1 because it usually is a bit further from the drummer
Racktom 3: a bit less plate than Racktom 2, cause it is a bit closer than 2, but further than 1
Floortom 1: a lot less plate than Racktom 2, even less than Racktom 1, because it is closer to the drummer
Floortom 2: almost no plate, because it is closest
OHs: also got some plate, because they are not very close to the drummer either
After this was done, it still didn't sound convincing enough, so I played with the volumes and made everything that was closer louder and everything that was further softer.
This gave me a lot of left/right and front/back image already, but I wanted to have a feeling of up/down on the kit too. For example the low tom needs to be a lot closer to the ground than the cymbals or the high toms. So I started taking out lows for everything that was supposed to be placed up and I added lows or took out highs for everything that was supposed to be placed down.
Eventually I was very happy with how I got my drums placed in the stereo field. It's not perfect, but it made airdrumming so much more enjoyable ...
Check it out here (if your room isn't treated, you might have trouble hearing the subtleties):
http://www.faderhead.com/blogs/mp3/faderhead_panning_reverb_placement.mp3
I am aware that a lot of times this kind of panning does not work for a full mix, but it basically stumbled upon it by accident and it is handy to be able to do it IF you need it for an open mix. Obviously it works exactly the same way for "audience perspective" just reversed ...
Hope this is of use to anyone!
