Is there any special trick to making this easier? Not that I really tried that hard, but so far, I can do For Whom the Bell Tolls and that's it. I get really messed up whenever the vocal rhythm is different from the guitar.
Learning to sing and play at the same time
- Thread starter Carpal
- Start date
Sunbane
Metalistic Madman
Carpal said:
This is really hard, and some people can do it with bigger ease than others. You can learn to do it, but it requires a lot of effort.
First learn the guitar parts you'll need to play, so you have them down real good. Your playing will have to go on half automation for you to be able to do this well - once your fingers know the drill, you can focus more on the singing. After that it's pretty much a matter of practice.
'bane
union9
He Who Can Not Be Named
I have the utmost respect for anyone who can do this. Especially the people who play intricate, technical guitar patterns and sing over the top of them. I try and do it in my own band, and it's tuff enough trying to scream a couple of words for back up let alone singing a whole fucking song like our singer does. (Rob...you rule mate!) But it has gotten easier through persiverance and practice. But, Sunbane summed it up in his post, some people get it together alot quicker than most, but it all comes down to practice.
blackwater1
Member
Carpal said:
It's not that hard as you think, and as I thought when I started playin.
The most important is that you can really play the song and your hands have to move in auto-mode. You have to learn not to mix guitar and voice, that means not to play the rythm of the voice on guitar, that was always the thing I had a problem with. Try not to concentrate too much on the lyrics,just get the melody first. the more you can handle your guitar, the easier it is. be patient.
Nocturnal Emperor
Why so serious ?
In my opinion this cannot be done unless you play relative things on guitar as the ones you sing. I mean it's obviously only natural to sing while you're strumming or something, but you cannot expect a difficult vocal line to go out flawlessly together with a rhythmically 'irrelevant' difficult guitar part. It's as much possible as playing flute and singing at the same time 
Update: maybe this can be done, but it won't have any feeling, soul into it. You will either have to focus on the guitar - or the vocal.
Ultimate_Symphony
Rusted Angel
- Jul 18, 2002
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Yeah I guess you're right, Feanor. Most of the guitarrists/singers that i've heard usually work with simple vocal lines. It'll be hard as hell to play like Michael Romeo and sing like Russell Allen at the same time, beleive me
As for the question, take sunbane's advice. I suggest you to practice both things separated, when you're done with that, practice both at the same time and with time you should be able to do it.
As for the question, take sunbane's advice. I suggest you to practice both things separated, when you're done with that, practice both at the same time and with time you should be able to do it.
Nocturnal Emperor said:
Alexi plays the easy parts while singing... that's how.
Now Chuck, well he just had to have practiced a hell of a lot.
It's humanly impossible to do it to some things though...I don't care what you guys say. For example, to sing and play stuff like Pig Destroyer, well, it just can't be done... unless you're some sort of god.
It's very hard to play and sing! I tried it alot, and usually I screw up the vocals. I have alot of respect for guys like Tom Ayara from Slayer and Ihsahn from Emperor!
xenophobe
Active Member
I've never seen Pig Destroyer live, but both the guys from Nile sing and play guitar at the same time...
The complexity isn't really as much of an issue as being able to do two things at once, well.
Vocal lines almost never flow with the guitar riffs, they flow with the melody or the timing of the particular measure being played.
I've never been able to do anything more than backups while playing guitar or bass.
Some people seem to be adept at doing this, some people can't do it for the life of them. Practice with material you already know may be the key.
The complexity isn't really as much of an issue as being able to do two things at once, well.
Vocal lines almost never flow with the guitar riffs, they flow with the melody or the timing of the particular measure being played.
I've never been able to do anything more than backups while playing guitar or bass.
Some people seem to be adept at doing this, some people can't do it for the life of them. Practice with material you already know may be the key.
diospada
Katatonic Opethean
Brutal/Harsh or at any rate non-melodic vocals are comprehensible. You can definitely do them while playing, because they don't require any accuracy, when it comes to notes. But singing something melodic, like for example Rhapsody, Angra, Stratovarius etc while playing REAL guitar, not just backing the others, is definitely out of the question, in my opinion, for any human being. We only have one head to control everything, so you cannot possibly ask to 'lead' your hands and throat in completely different ways. You will either have to focus on the one or on the other. As I said, you can only do both when your brain is not connected to your fingers, for example, which means that you play mechanically. But this is not "real" playing, because you just produce notes. No feeling, no expression whatsoever. That's what I think, at least
Ciaaaooozzzzzzzzzzzzz
Ciaaaooozzzzzzzzzzzzz
Chaos Incarnate
Trapped
Well here's another twist to the argument. If we physically can't make our head control our hands and throat at the same time, then how can drummers have both hands and both feet doing different things at the same time. If you practice you can do it.
-Chaos
-Chaos
xenophobe
Active Member
Feanor IV said:
I would have to dissagree with that concerning many of the bands I've been in or listen to.
Yes, you can growl off key, and timing is more of a concern with ANY vocals rather than just singing in key or not.... Normal singing doesn't have a tendency to damage vocal chords in the course of normal performing, growling can.
While some songs just might have random grublings in them, most do not, and have specifically timed and placed lyrics... I know our band certainly does. I actually would find it more difficult growling than just singing in a normal voice.
Oh well... just my opinon.
Magicawe
Carnivorous Jesus
The biggest tip I can give is you have to associate the two. Even if the rhythms are different, you have to assosciate the riff with the vocals. I don't know how to explain this any better but that's how it works for me.
Ultimate_Symphony
Rusted Angel
- Jul 18, 2002
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xenophobe said:I would have to dissagree with that concerning many of the bands I've been in or listen to.
Yes, you can growl off key, and timing is more of a concern with ANY vocals rather than just singing in key or not.... Normal singing doesn't have a tendency to damage vocal chords in the course of normal performing, growling can.
While some songs just might have random grublings in them, most do not, and have specifically timed and placed lyrics... I know our band certainly does. I actually would find it more difficult growling than just singing in a normal voice.
Oh well... just my opinon.
And I have to agree with this opinion
Feanor:
Instrument-Singing coordination is trainable to any degree. If you have ever seen Pain of Salvation live, the guitarist/singer Daniel Gildenlöw plays complex riffs on the guitar while singing a totally different vocal line. A piano piece by Luciano Berio require splitting of the hands into four parts who all play with different dynamics and touch. This piece has been played many times by different players, who have most likely put enormous effort into splitting the mind and training coordination. Geddy Lee of Rush sometimes sings, plays keyboards and bass at the same time, and this is made possible only by extensive training of coordination.
Instrument-Singing coordination is trainable to any degree. If you have ever seen Pain of Salvation live, the guitarist/singer Daniel Gildenlöw plays complex riffs on the guitar while singing a totally different vocal line. A piano piece by Luciano Berio require splitting of the hands into four parts who all play with different dynamics and touch. This piece has been played many times by different players, who have most likely put enormous effort into splitting the mind and training coordination. Geddy Lee of Rush sometimes sings, plays keyboards and bass at the same time, and this is made possible only by extensive training of coordination.
@Harp Heaven:
I have to admit that I lack arguments against your opinion, so maybe I'm wrong and it can be done. But I don't think that you can take it to any degree, theoritically. Practically of course, maybe you don't even need to....
Anyway, I still do believe that to achieve this status, you got to somehow create 'waypoints' in your mind, meaning points where you synchronize your two hands, or hand & voice or whatever: points in a song where you can associate the two parts. That's the way the human mind works, to my knowledge. Except for the case, as I said, when you only focus on the one side, and let the body mechanically do the other one.
I have to admit that I lack arguments against your opinion, so maybe I'm wrong and it can be done. But I don't think that you can take it to any degree, theoritically. Practically of course, maybe you don't even need to....
Anyway, I still do believe that to achieve this status, you got to somehow create 'waypoints' in your mind, meaning points where you synchronize your two hands, or hand & voice or whatever: points in a song where you can associate the two parts. That's the way the human mind works, to my knowledge. Except for the case, as I said, when you only focus on the one side, and let the body mechanically do the other one.
Bassmasta
Member
Nocturnal Emperor said:
Some people are just naturally gifted, like Geddy Lee and Sting. I don't know how those guys do it, especially when they're playing off-beats and crap and Rush with their odd time sigs. Praise to them!