Legitimate 9-11 Video

[The Deacon Dr. O]

Some of you may have already seen this, but I'm interested in hearing what you all think:

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm

Obviously it is easy to sway peoples oppinions with well done propoganda: It's flashy, asthetically appealing, and moves fairly quickly, sometimes not giving you adequate time to consider all sides of every issue it brings up. Yet of all the 9-11 consipracy theory presentations I've seen, its the best. I havent seen any flaws in the logic or evidence of this presentation, If anyone has any arguments on this, I'd be interested in hearing them.

 

[Lord SteveO]

Although i see stuff like this as interesting and a good listen/read, i have little reason to believe it.
The links and other material was interesting but a bit far fetched.

As far as i'm concerned the attacks were performed by Islamic extremists wanting revenge on the USA and the west for years of disrespect and bad treatment.
Even if they were in fact the result of some crazy world wide plan by the super-human-lizard-men-illuminati-masons from venus i really don't care too much as i can hardly see how their plan is doing very much.
How exactly is the world being manipulated? Most the people in the developed world have great lives, not worried about much except maybe the greed that causes some trouble. And although the 3rd world is worse off, a lot of people there lead very happy lives too. I'd hardly say the world is being controll to make it and endless chain of wars and missery.
If there is some massive world wide "plot" then there is certainly little-no evidence for it except the paraniod ravings of a few oddballs.

 

[derek]

My view is that we are not being told the whole story. The U.S would like to paint a black and white picture of good America/bad Islam when it is not actually the case and over simplifies things to a great extent. What we are told happened is rarely the truth.

The conspiracy theories are generally born from the minds of complete nut-jobs (to use a technical term). I, like Lord SteveO above, am of the opinion that the terrorist attacks were revenge on America (the country that epitomises "Western world" more than any other) for years and years of meddling and fucked up interference.

I am NOT saying those people who died brought it on themselves, it was a great tragedy, BUT i think their government and previous administrations have fucked up many a country to the point where retaliation by fundamentalists was inevitable.

For the record, i hold exactly the same view regarding the bombings over here in London too, I don't just see America poking their noses in, they just happen to do it most.

 

[Lord SteveO]

Agree with you 100% there.

I doubt we are told the whole truth. But with the ammount of investigative reporting that goes on and the use of websites, email etc i think we can easily get a rough idea of what happens in an event.

The 9/11 attacks were quite clearly the work of religious extremists of the Islamic religion. Evidence was found relating to them, their religion and also the acts were praised in many muslim countries. Statments from Bin Laden etc also show that they were likely the people behind it, or at least they were closely linked.
Add in that part about it being revenge and you have a good idea of what happened and the reasons. The reasons for revenge on that scale are easy to see, just look at the middle east and what's been happening there for the last 60 years.

I believe the only real conspiracy is that the governments of the USA and UK and a few other places don't want to admit they may be responsible in some way, as a result of years of disrespect and meddling in the arab world. The constant focus on the war on terror takes the eyes of the world away from the roots of the problem. How often do you see reporters discussing the problems with foreign policy or the past 20 years of messing about in the middle east. Does happen but not to any extent that the populatin wakes up and says "hey maybe we should look at the roots of this and not just bomb people".
That's the only conspiracy here, if it even is one.

 

[derek]

It makes some people feel better to believe conspiracy theories. All the X-Files done was to give those inbreds a place to chat and meet up and talk crazyness.

Case in point: those bizarre internet tv channels that you subscribe to with episodes about how the reptiles are taking over :|

 

[Birkenau]

Who cares?

 

[derek]

If you have nothing valuable to say, then say nothing.

The answer is, alot of people. It kinda raises some interesting questions about the whole situation, including why we are currently involved in a war...i'd say that is a pretty bad situation, that MANY folks care about.

 

[Hubster]

Another excellent doco on the 9/11 topic is called "Loose Change". Very b-grade, but EXTREMELY well researched, this doco basically blames it all on the Bush Administration.

http://www.911wasalie.com/phpwebsite/

Well worth checking out.

 

[derek]

Will check it out, cheers.

 

[Dushan S]

I will not say that I am either pro or against 9/11 conspiracy theories. But I have noticed that people into idea about secret conspiracy for changing society and way of living in US, and getting "objective reasons" for going into war are too concentrated into eventual flows in very happenings of 9/11.
Like, is the hole in pentagon building big enough considering size and trajectory of the plane and similar thing.

If there was conspiracy at work, it would be most appropriate to work before all that, in subtely letting terrorist do their work, passively help them, maybe even have some kind of deal with them, and then use deadly results for new military and social aganda in the states after everything has happened. And those things are really hard to prove, so if there was a plot at work, I doubt that we will ever know.
Anyway, whole thing, even if it is tragedy for some american people as individuals has objectively been very usefull for some other, in a so obvious way that it is really hard not to get ideas that this is intentional letting terrorists to do their thing.
I do think that most of americans are not able to cope with the idea that people ruling their "free" and "democratic" society would sacrifice human lives in this brutal and cunning way to manipulate them for their own causes, and that it is easier for most of citizens to turn head on the other side and belive it is just an incompetence or flow in the security mesures or whatever.

 

[derek]

I do think that most of americans are not able to cope with the idea that people ruling their "free" and "democratic" society would sacrifice human lives in this brutal and cunning way to manipulate them for their own causes, and that it is easier for most of citizens to turn head on the other side and belive it is just an incompetence or flow in the security mesures or whatever.

Good point.

 

[The Deacon Dr. O]

I think you all make good points, although I'm really interested in the actually possibilities in how acurate the video may be. I generally think conspiracy theories are bullshit, and in this case I'm not necessarily decided for or against this video. However, this one is just well enough put together that I feel it deserves some thought.

 

[derek]

Well, i've read secondary literature on the subject and much of the stuff concerning the cctv seems correct or there abouts. I'm not convinced by alot of the rest of it though.

 

[Lord SteveO]

The stuff about the videos, CCTV footage, size of hole etc does make some sense. But i still find it hard to believe. Were there not lots of eye-witnesses? Hard to mistake a plane for anything else.

The other secondary material is IMO where the whole theory falls to bits. Too much of it seems based on an episode of the X-files or some Hollywood film. The vast majority of it seems too far fetched and some of it just looks like the ravings of mad people.

 

[derek]

I totally agree, but I remember reading stuff that seemed to be written by normal folks. I think it's hard to see the truth among the lies and bullshit at times. But i still think any rational person can see something funny is going on, even if they can't put their finger on what.

 

[biscottina]

Ever considered that, perhaps, we know the whole story of only that which we have personal control over? The government has pretty strong grasp of media's nutsacks. More than we may even want to realize.

 

[speed]

I watched that video two years ago. I really dont think there is a government conspiracy on in regards to the Pentagon building as if anyone hasnt noticed with the whole administration under indictment, and the fiasco with New Orleans, our entire government is incompetant.

The only possible alternative to my mind, would be that they shot a SAM or cruise missile at the plane once it reached DC, and it missed. Now I could understand why they would cover that up.

 

[derek]

The only possible alternative to my mind, would be that they shot a SAM or cruise missile at the plane once it reached DC, and it missed. Now I could understand why they would cover that up.

That seems to make alot of sense. I still find it hard to believe it was a 747 though.

 

[Lord SteveO]

The missile idea sounds ok as a basis for the cover up. But wouldn't people notice a missile shooting accross the DC sky?

I think the plane was the cause of the explosion. How it got there we may never know, or why it crashed. But the official storry makes sense to me.
If it was not a plane then where'd the plane go? You can't vanish a 747.

If you read some of the background info on pages likned to the site mentioned it actually looks ok to start with.
But then you read some of the emails and messenger chats from the authors and you realise it's mostly just paranoid ravings (i mean on one disscussion these two guys started talking in codes and riddles! I was like the X-file for fucks sake!)

 

[speed]

The missile idea sounds ok as a basis for the cover up. But wouldn't people notice a missile shooting accross the DC sky?

I think the plane was the cause of the explosion. How it got there we may never know, or why it crashed. But the official storry makes sense to me.
If it was not a plane then where'd the plane go? You can't vanish a 747.

If you read some of the background info on pages likned to the site mentioned it actually looks ok to start with.
But then you read some of the emails and messenger chats from the authors and you realise it's mostly just paranoid ravings (i mean on one disscussion these two guys started talking in codes and riddles! I was like the X-file for fucks sake!)

Im sure it was a plane as well. Most conspiracies are pretty out in the open; its just few people want to look for them, or can understand them. For instance, the Bretton Woods conferance for the most part decided the economic poverty of the third world, but few outside the academic or higher up government agencies give it any mention.