let me EQ your tracks!

[pikachu69]

Hello,

I have been using this forum for a while now and have learned so much. I really just want to say thanks to you all it is an honor.
As I am such a nice guy lol I have been trying to think of a way to 'give back' to this community that has given me so much, like many here also, but it is hard to think of any thing that has not already been done.
So all I could think of was this...

For the last few years I have been an avid user of a program called Har-Bal.
I have done a search on this forum and while it has been discussed a little bit, no one here really seems to use it.

I LOVE this program!

It takes a while to learn how to get the full benefits from it, like most programs I guess, but once you do it can do amazing things not just for your final mix but also for training your ears in general.


What I propose for my 'giving back' is to put my theories to the test on just how good Har-Bal really is.

Send me a copy of your un-mastered track and I will EQ 'balance' it for you using Har-Bal and send it back to you ready to add the final mastering touches. (Comp Limit etc)

By doing so you will be helping me learn more about mastering from your comments on the EQ I do for you, and you get a fresh set of ears on a track for free!
I am happy to take one track per person, but if I really like your track I may ask for more to practice with.

As I have been using Har-Bal for so long now I feel I would be able to answer most questions about its use so if you want to know more about it just post a question here and I will do my best to answer.

Like all mastering type programs, it may not be needed on every track, as what it tends to show is imbalances within the mix in a less than ideal mix.
So as you would expect, the better your track is mixed, the less mastering (and therefore Har-Baling) that will be done. Some mixes can be changed drastically but thats normally a sign to go back to the drawing board with the mix rather than fixing it with mastering. But even the most well mixed tracks can still benefit from the Har-Bal process.

When you submit a track, could you please name a band and/or song you would liken your track to for my reference thanks.

All I ask in return i that you post your comments on my work for others to see on this forum.

I hope this is successful and you all like my idea, so go ahead put my EQ to the test!
Cheers,
Nigel.

--Edit--
Examples posted further below.

 

[reg3n]

isn't that just like... curve eq matching?...

 

[pikachu69]

On first look it SEEMS that way yes, but that exactly way I wanted to do this post.
The EQ curve matching thing is more a publicity thing and the least useful feature/gimmick of the program. It does SO much more than this.

Its really like have a graphic EQ with an infinite amount of sliders with a curve view of both the average and the mean of the EQ spectrum to see exactly what needs to be adjusted and by precisely how much to achieve a balanced frequency spectrum, which is really what helps to achieve translation of a mix.
Post a clip and I will try to demonstrate what I am talking about.
Cheers.

 

[reg3n]

sounds awesome for itb mastering, i'll try to come up with some riffing clip but not a promise, do you know of any link with info about it? thanks

 

[pikachu69]

Cool man, any track mixed down before any mastering will be fine. doesn't have to be a keeper.
www.har-bal.com
This is the only place I know to get it. I saw a review in a magazine in 2004 and brought it based on that and have used it every day since.
There main selling point is the ability to match a songs frequency curve and yes it does do that well, but using it manually provides infinite control over the entire spectrum.
Maybe I use it outside its typical use, but I have found it to be helpful in so many other ways. I was hoping to use this thread as a way of showing you all these things.

Cheers.

 

[reneisgod]

Harball is great i use this on everything, not only my final mixes.

For anyone that likes curve eq, try using both!

curve eq 1st and then harball, curve eq will only get u half way there
harball really cleans thing up nicely especially harsh high end/fizz on guitar tracks.

 

[reg3n]

mind sharing any clips? i kind'a dropped har bal long ago when i (seems like i didn't pay enough attention to it) got curveEq from voxengo, but i'd like to hear stuff procesed with this, not just eq matched, plz?

 

[reneisgod]

I havent anything recent dude, and i havent kept before and after examples
i only have mixes i used it on which r fairly useless to you if you cant hear the mix before hand.

Its an awesome tool though, for me personally it really just took the harshness out of my mixes and really balanced the mid range area.

I never use any eq on my masters i always go to harball 1st
then i bring the full mix into a session then do the usual compression limiting.

Im sure you can download a demo from the site, if ur intending to use it for curve eq purposes remember to use the match vol function before u match the eq.

 

[reg3n]

this and the site info are very interesting! i only used har bal a couple times and in like a brainless mode, just for matching, but thanks to you guys i've got homework for tonight! that loudness compensation eq thing looks promising and seems to have sense! i find myself struggling with harshness too (guitar crunchiness excess mostly), a LOT, i'll give it a try and try to post clips
thanks again for the info dewds

 

[pikachu69]

mind sharing any clips? i kind'a dropped har bal long ago when i (seems like i didn't pay enough attention to it) got curveEq from voxengo, but i'd like to hear stuff procesed with this, not just eq matched, plz?

M8, the whole point of this thread was for you to post a clip so I could show you a clip of what it does lol and like wise I don't have any straight before's and after to show. Humor Me.....

Its an awesome tool though, for me personally it really just took the harshness out of my mixes and really balanced the mid range area.

I never use any eq on my masters i always go to harball 1st
then i bring the full mix into a session then do the usual compression limiting.

+1000

Just one of the few cool tricks I use it for too.

@reneisgod: Glad to hear someone else uses Har-Bal here too. Maybe you could help me out on this thread if it goes well.




Anyone?

Cheers.

 

[reneisgod]

Here dude i done a very quick comparison and screen shot for u on a guitar
riff.


I Curve eq'd the guitar track and then i brought it into Harball to compare and matched the db level. You must match the db level before you start eq'ing towards a reference!
Also you must then save the track and bring it back into Harball after the db is matched.

''to bring your reference track into Harball''
(file, reference, open) in this example i curved eq'd a slayer riff so i brought the original slayer riff in as the reference obviously.

Btw I don't eq towards references anymore but its a great way to learn Harball to begin with.

At this point you can check the screen dump i made and this is showing you
according to Harball how far off the eq match actually is, remember i have already curve eq'd this and as you can see the actual curve is still a bit off.

this is where the magic happens

basically u tidy ur curve up by using ur mouse and matching up to the reference lines.
it takes a while! but its worth it


anyways listen to the curve eq then harball clips in my example and u will notice all the fizz and harshness has vanished in the final harball clip! and it just sounds really fuckin smooth now.
This great for everything not just guitars.

Once you get used to harball you'll find you don't have to match eq's
with a reference to get a good tone you'll start getting used to looking at the your own tracks and determining where and how to get rid of the fizz without a reference.

It takes a while to get used to but its way worth it and ur tracks will sound alot better, as i said i always use this on my guitar tracks its so much easier shaping the eq visually with harball i was hopeless battling fizz and harsh high end before i started using Harball.

give me a shout if u have any questions i had to put this together fairly quick dude soz

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1008186/harball.rar

 

[reneisgod]

pikachu69

yeah man everyone on this forum could benefit from using it.

 

[pikachu69]

Once you get used to harball you'll find you don't have to match eq's
with a reference to get a good tone you'll start getting used to looking at the your own tracks and determining where and how to get rid of the fizz without a reference.

It takes a while to get used to but its way worth it and ur tracks will sound alot better, as i said i always use this on my guitar tracks its so much easier shaping the eq visually with harball i was hopeless battling fizz and harsh high end before i started using Harball.

+1000

This is one of the biggest advantages of Har-Bal. I do most if not all of my surgical EQ in har-bal not my DAW, then import EQ'ed tracks back into my DAW for the mix. Everything will fall into place easier, less balancing issues and an easy to master track at the end of it all.
Open an OH track and you can see resonant peaks caused by phase and room issues so you can eliminate them quickly and easily etc.
I will talk more about this soon and try to post some examples in the next couple of days.

The EQ matching thing is only good to visually compare your track to a commercial mix. It gives great insight into how a mix is put together and after staring at both commercial mixes and your own, you soon learn any bad habits you may have and how to fix them in the mix before mastering.

Cheers.

 

[pikachu69]

OK I have an example for you.

This clip was donated by NSguitar, thanks very much M8.

Overall this was a great track to start with but I felt it sounded a little woolly and needed some more air, so I opened it in Har-Bal and did a quick EQ.
Because this was well mixed to begin with the difference between versions is small, but noticeable all the same.

For ease of comparison I have included one track that changes between the original track and the Har-Bal track every 30 seconds.

The first 30 seconds is untouched then @ 30 seconds you should hear a subtle tonal change going into the Har-bal version then at 1 min it goes back to original again and so on...

One point to note: this process is normally done BEFORE compression and limiting at the mastering stage. The example I had to work with had already been limited to -7RMS so this limits what can be done to retain maximum sound quality but still serves as a reasonable example I think.
I also had to match volumes between sections to allow for more accurate assessment.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10584477/Straight Up TheMiddle EQ test1.mp3

Let me know your thoughts guys.

Cheers.

 

[NSGUITAR]

This was -7 RMS? cool haha

 

[reg3n]

M8, the whole point of this thread was for you to post a clip so I could show you a clip of what it does lol and like wise I don't have any straight before's and after to show. Humor Me.....

I appreciate your offer, but it's not the way i do things, i just find it interesting. Anyway m8, it'd be nice if you could post an example of what you're saying in the very first thread post, to show what you are capable of with this nice piece of software.

 

[pikachu69]

I appreciate your offer, but it's not the way i do things, i just find it interesting. Anyway m8, it'd be nice if you could post an example of what you're saying in the very first thread post, to show what you are capable of with this nice piece of software.

As soon as someone gives me a track to work with I will try to show what I am on about.
I want to avoid using my own tracks for this, I want it to be something you are already familiar with as a before sound/tonal balance, so when you listen to the example it holds some weight, if that makes sense.
I want to show how it could potentially help with you own mix process, not mine.
As a basic start please listen to the example above from NSGuitar's track.

I promise I am not trying to be awkward with this, I understand I am a newb round here also and I respect the way you do things. You are just asking me to produce the chicken without giving me an egg to sit on.

Cheers.

 

[espartaco]

cool thread!, pikachu i have a question is there a particular reason to eq before compresion?? i though that usually doing it this way the compression is going to fuck whit the eq changes.. maybe im missing something i dont know .i working in a mix right now maybe when is finished ill send it to you.

 

[pikachu69]

cool thread!, pikachu i have a question is there a particular reason to eq before compresion?? i though that usually doing it this way the compression is going to fuck whit the eq changes..

Cheers M8,
I hope you get something useful from this

I know you hear on this forum there is no right or wrong way, and that is very true but there is always guide lines you can follow to help along the way.

Eq before or after compression during mastering depends on several factors. Here are a couple of my thoughts on this.

The quality of the Original mix. If it is well balanced to begin with, little to no Mastering EQ will be needed beyond maybe adding air and sub bass frequencies. A mix with an un even frequency balance will be harder to compress effectively, and more often than not a multi-band compressor will have to be used before a standard stereo compressor to even out the spectrum. This is when compression is more like EQ. This is also what Har-Bal does. If used right it will eliminate the need for a multi-band compressor.

If you don't want your compression to change your EQ during mastering you need to use and Opto based compressor as they are very transparent.

Surgical EQ should be done BEFORE compression, sweeting EQ after (or created with) a compressor.

Again these are just guidelines and starting points I have picked from various sources over time. The best thing you can do is try them and see what works best for your ears and work flow.

Cheers.

 

[pikachu69]

OK, so since this thread has got off to a bad start I thought I better find an example to get the ball rolling more with a bit of luck.

I recorded this track of my M8s band on the weekend just gone so I did a quick mix of it today to demonstrate Har-Bal some more.

Please note this was a quick mix as I didn't have anything else I could use as an example off hand so its not my best work. Please just focus on the difference Har-Bal creates as apposed to critically listening to the mix.

The track cuts between the un EQed version and the EQed version every 30 seconds starting with the before EQ example.

Its an old school metal/hard rock track.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10584477/Har-Bal EQ test 1.mp3

Here is a pic of the EQ curve both before and after Har-Bal (the faint white line in the back is the before Har-Bal curve the Bright green and yellow lines and after I used Har-Bal.)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/10584477/Har-Bal-before-and-after-sc.jpg


As you can see by reducing the peaks and bringing up the dips, the spectrum becomes more 'even' resulting in a clarity as though a thin sheet was removed from the speakers. The effect seems subtle at first but the more you listen to it the more apparent it becomes.
You can also see I had issues with the low end in this mix that I could not hear to well in my untreated room, but thanks to Har-bal I am able to correct it and give my mix a better chance of translating well.

I hope this is a good start into showing how this works, in a very basic way I know but more to come soon if people are interested.

Cheers.

Remember this is just the first part of mastering, after this I would continue to the next stage ie compressing limiting etc.