Live Recording

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Hey guys,

I just learned a minute ago that two days from now I'll have to record a live gig of a band but I've never done that before and I'm quite worried about it. I hope to have enough ins in my gear for it, but since I know nothing about the mixing console there will be at my disposal, I'm wondering if I should use my preamps and send them line outs to the console or use some outs of the console (what kind ?) to get into the card. Obviously going to the console first would be more secure for the gig (if my computer dies, at least there will still be some sound for the audience !) but not for the live recording...
Does anyone here have any experience with that ? I'm quite in a hurry for this and under a bit of stress ! (aaaaargh !!!)
Thanks in advance !

 

[~BURNY~]

Maybe you should rent a splitter snake and use some unused group outs only if needed. This way, you don't have bother that much about the mixing desk.

 

[Frank'nfurter]

Maybe you should rent a splitter snake and use some unused group outs only if needed. This way, you don't have bother that much about the mixing desk.

Yeah, thats a good point, but you need a seperate Desk with direct outs per channel to control the input volumes of your recording gear. Think of it!
Over in digital means OVER and it sounds like THAT.

 

[Impy]

But with a splitter, couldn't he just use the console for the venue then his own pre's for recording?

 

[Andy Sneap]

To do it properly you need splitters and mic pres, though I've done it before where I've just gone direct out of front of house desk into pro tools (Arch Enemy in Paris for example). Obviously, if you do it that way, you are usually post fader and at the mercy of the front of house guy, but its the cheapest way and you can be clever by splitting the things you need that he may be riding, like main vox into another channel and use that instead of his direct out and also gtr DI's so you can reamp/fix later.

 

[Frank'nfurter]

Obviously, if you do it that way, you are usually post fader and at the mercy of the front of house guy

Except you in the luck to be in front of a MIDAS H2000 or H3000. Then you can use the adjustable direct outs (XLR outs) of the FOH. They are independent of the channelfaders and the 'mercy of the FOH guy'

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Hey guys thanks for your answers. About this splitter thing, how much does it cost to rent one approximately, just to see if that's even possible for me ? Is it a very expensive thing ? It really seems like the best solution, though I might run out of mic pres since I only have 12. At least I could use those and maybe a few direct outs of the desk by some "clever" bussing since I still have 6 other balanced inputs available.
I don't think I'll even bother to get the DI of the guitar, there's only one (amazing) guitar player in the band and his sound is very "unique"...

P.S. : Andy, stop teasing us by listening to this Testament Live In London !!!

 

[Andy Sneap]

you may want to think again about the DI, you can reamp, get rid of all stage noise and if you need to correct anything, which you will, you can reamp through the same set up so your sounds match perfectly.
Splitters are expensive, you can hire from most decent hire companies, I recommend either the Klark Technics or BSS. I have a passive Whirlwind splitter unit thats fine (they also do splitter snakes) and the Mackie desk, which works (unusual for Mackie I know). It would be great if someone made an active splitter with pres on one output.
whirlwind splitter

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

though I've done it before where I've just gone direct out of front of house desk into pro tools (Arch Enemy in Paris for example). Obviously, if you do it that way, you are usually post fader and at the mercy of the front of house guy

A lot of Front of house desks have the channel direct out post gain but pre fader and EQ so as long as the front of house tech leaves the gains alone and mixes totally on the faders you should be fine.

 

[Andy Sneap]

yeah and alot dont! Bet yours wont. Can you not find out what desk it is in the club?, thats what I normally do, might save you a lot of hassle. Some of the bigger venues even have splitters built in. Also, see if they have a monitor board, you may be able to send all signals from there instead of front of house, which may be alot easier.

 

[elmuchoescadawg]

fair point. How many auxes and groups does it have? Theyre all outputs..

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

I won't know what desk it is before I get there... Nobody is able to answer me...
I've thought about the monitor board, it might probably be much easier, and my guess is that these boards usually have more aux sends (which I could maybe use) than the FOH... So as there are only 3 guys in the band, maybe they won't use them all...
Baaah, at least I guess I'll be able to have a stereo out

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Got it finally after about 10 phone calls !!! So the FOH desk is a Yamaha PM3500 and the monitor one a Allen & Heath ML5000. Both have Direct Outs for each channel, they are both Pre and Post, but it must be set inside the desk with internal jumpers (and I'm not sure what state it will be when I'll arrive...). At least, the A&H has 16 aux, I might be able to get something right with that actually (they'll probably use 3 or 4 for the band only), even if the DO are set to Post (and with some direct outs of some "monitoring-unused" channels like overheads for instance (thanks elmucho for the tip)).
Now, let's just cross fingers for the Yamaha to be "pre"...

 

[Frank'nfurter]

I bet it is 'post'. You know....murphys law.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

That's my guess as well... Well anyway that's what I'm trying to get ready to face, if it's 'pre' then "Hooray !". Both are 'post' by default, and the PA guy told me that they didn't modify it, so it must still be 'post' (and I wouldn't dare to open it to change it unless I really knew what I'd be doing - which I won't ...).

 

[Wadi]

May need a phantom power too if you're going to use splitter. Especially useful if the bass /keyboards is DI'ed.

The last time I did was using splitter into my rented mixer before going to my soundcard.

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Guys,

Back from the show, it was all very stressful... Arrival - Say "Hi" to the band and start to search for a table, an electrical plug... - soundcheck beginning earlier than expected due to the headliner being late - get equipment and connections ready (Direct Outs used in good friendship with the FOH guy that didn't touch his Gains after that) - end of soundcheck - D'oh ! So I was quite blind during all this. Also, since I didn't got my Firewire HD, I had to record with a USB2 drive, and I was pretty worried if it could handle all the 16 tracks recording... I think it did (didn't listen to the sound yet but no Blue Screen or whatever error message...). I've seen a bit of "red light clipping" sometimes but I think it's not too bad (couldn't do anything about it anyway)... I'll see and post a song for you if you want.
Amazing show by the way, in front of a nice old medieval tower, really cool !

 

[Brett - K A L I S I A]

Hey guys,

Ok so I just mixed one track from the show, you can download it here, please send me your comments as usual !!!

www.towerstudio.net/mp3/freak.mp3

(or kalisia.free.fr/tower/mp3/freak.mp3 if the first link doesn't work for you)

Thanks !

 

[~BURNY~]

Freak Kitchen?
Sounds great. It just miss some crowd/ambient sounds, but overall it's great, very clean...

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

dude sounds good! I agree it could use a little more crowd noise, even if it was just that one drunk guy in the corner with the manowar shirt that goes to every show and shouts "Slayer!!"