Live rig..cab or line

[medic999]

so tonight my band played with a fairly well known band, and during them back lining I was talking to one of the guitar players about the live rigs they use. they have their amps and cabs on, but no mic for the cab, he had some sort of splitter that is between the head and cab. one line went xlr to the house and another to his speakers. does anyone know what that thing is? also I have a hotplate, would i get a better live sound just running a lineout of that? also the bass player just went lineout from his sansamp into the house, which sounds great, my bass player actually did that tonight and it sounds mean.

 

[Trevoire520]

For bass it's much more common for a DI signal to be taken than mic'ing up a cab in a live situation. If you've got a Sansamp or similar pedal you'll get a great tone to front of house.
The splitter you seen is most likely some kind of DI box with a speaker simulation on the XLR out. Personally I'd much rather mic a cab than use one of those as I don't think I've ever heard one that sounds decent.

 

[-Noodles-]

As Trev said, that method mostly sounds rubbish. I've found that I have to use a lot of EQ or processing to use it instead of a mic.

There are a lot of different things like Palmer DI boxes, H&K Redbox and probably loads more - but unless you've got a lot of time to refine your sound and try out different boxes, it might be worth just mic'ing?

Sansamp on a bass is the defacto standard.

 

[amarshism]

I hate the red boxes and palmers. Always sound boxy and shit. A 57 in the right place will always smoke them.

 

[jENK]

I've gotten great results using cab sims live. A few years ago almost every metal band I mixed in The States were using H & K Red Boxes. Now they're all using the Fractal Axe-Fx. Having a D.I. guitar sound has massive advantages, especially when touring. For a start, you don't have to worry about whether the venue will have a decent mic for your cab (most venues do have 57's but a lot of the time they are old and sound like crap), or better still, bumping the mic while you are playing can be a problem. During festivals there is no wind blowing on the mic but most importantly, you have the same guitar sound each night on tour, regardless of the mic or the cab you are using. And you can hire or borrow cabs which makes it more cost effective on the road. I love the sound of a 57 on a cab but cab sims are practical for live touring which is why so many bands use them.

 

[medic999]

cool thank for the replies. after looking for the ones you guys posted I found the one they had was the palmer di box. i had a feeling there was some speaker simulation going on, they had their own sound guy with them so they had a really good sound on every level. So the hotplate lineout wouldnt work, unless I had a cab simulator box I assume.

 

[jENK]

Palmer's are very good and Radial make one called the JDX Reactor. I haven't heard that one. I own a Cab-Tone but they are near impossible to get as they don't make them anymore.

 

[medic999]

i found this ----> http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-sims/recordings.php blind test for a bunch of different.

 

[Clockwork]

i found this ----> http://www.franknitsch.com/speaker-sims/recordings.php blind test for a bunch of different.

Oh man, I did that blind test and of the two I thought were great one was a Behringer.

 

[StefTD]

I did a test once in the rehearsal room of my old band, had a Palmer, a Hughes Kettner and a Behringer lying around.
The Behringer sounded the best, still strange, but the whole band liked it the most...

 

[arv_foh]

I actually have 2 of the behringer GI100s, one has stopped working already.. that was the one I liked the most of the blind test.. randomly had a guy at a show ask me to use one and I was pretty surprised with how it sounded so for $35 I said fuck it and bought 2 of em. I think any of those boxes could work well if you listen to your tone and tailor it for what is coming out of the DI.

I've had more and more touring bands going direct lately.. some with POD, some with axefx, some with radial jdx boxes, not many palmers.. but the human abstract was using palmer and I thought they had the best tone of the night on the particular tour they were with, that also had axefx (periphery).. cut well and all the notes were very articulated and well heard.

As already said.. most people do it for the consistency.. plus it reduces stage volume and gives the FOH engineer more control (especially if the band is using in ears).

 

[Clockwork]

I actually have 2 of the behringer GI100s, one has stopped working already.. that was the one I liked the most of the blind test.. randomly had a guy at a show ask me to use one and I was pretty surprised with how it sounded so for $35 I said fuck it and bought 2 of em. I think any of those boxes could work well if you listen to your tone and tailor it for what is coming out of the DI.

I've had more and more touring bands going direct lately.. some with POD, some with axefx, some with radial jdx boxes, not many palmers.. but the human abstract was using palmer and I thought they had the best tone of the night on the particular tour they were with, that also had axefx (periphery).. cut well and all the notes were very articulated and well heard.

As already said.. most people do it for the consistency.. plus it reduces stage volume and gives the FOH engineer more control (especially if the band is using in ears).

So from a FOH perspective how do you feel when people bring in various boxes to emulate cabs, do you prefer to mic a cab if given the option or are the boxes easier?

I guess I might as well grab one of those Behringer DIs since its so cheap and give it a try, if it sounds good then it sounds good even if the company is evil haha.

 

[arv_foh]

So from a FOH perspective how do you feel when people bring in various boxes to emulate cabs, do you prefer to mic a cab if given the option or are the boxes easier?

I guess I might as well grab one of those Behringer DIs since its so cheap and give it a try, if it sounds good then it sounds good even if the company is evil haha.

I guess it just depends.. a shit tone is a shit tone whether it's direct or there is a mic in front of it. Strictly speaking on ease, yeah it's definitely easier just to plug in an XLR direct than it is to sit in a front of a cab and try and guess where the best mic placement will be from a tone you've never heard.

I actually recently changed how I mic cabs, I used to do right at the edge of the dustcap, but I started doing 1" off the dustcap (this is just for live stuff) and have been having better results, because SO MANY guitarists have way too much treble in their tone which makes it ear piercing and really hard to listen to. It just sucks cause set changes are usually 15 minutes so you can't be running back and forth to the stage to move the mic if the positioning is less than ideal.

 

[medic999]

so would you guys doing sound recommend that guitar players use a cab sim rather than just micing the cab? I mean if it makes it easier to get better tone LIVE than ill consider buying one for me and my other guitar player. That GI100 think is only like $30 and actually sounds pretty good.


EDIT: nevermind that was just answered in the post before me.

 

[egan.]

Oh man, I did that blind test and of the two I thought were great one was a Behringer.

Candlemass's FOH guy mixed a split from those in when we toured with them. I have worked in live sound for years and have never seen a better engineer.

 

[Clockwork]

Candlemass's FOH guy mixed a split from those in when we toured with them. I have worked in live sound for years and have never seen a better engineer.

Damn, I have to try one of these. I hadn't even heard about one before that blind test. And I do like the simplicity of just giving the sound guy an xlr to plug into the board.

 

[greyskull]

Palmer and Behringer for me!
Well well well!

 

[medic999]

Palmer and Behringer for me!
Well well well!

ditto. im gonna pick up one f the Behringers. hopefully ill get $30 worth of use before it breaks

 

[raisedfist]

I toured with Life of Agony quite a long tine ago now and that was Mic and Red box and it was brutal and I think I have written this on here before but after that tour I bought a couple of the behringer ripoffs and A/B'ed them with the HK and I preferred the Brhringer.
That was in 2003 and my Behringer is still going. Also a month or so ago I was at Adam Hall looking at PA for my work and thats also where Palmer is build, and build well it is, so I wanna hear the shoot out:- HK vs Behringer vs Palmer etc etc

There are gonna be haters but I think u gotta have an open mind and use ya ears. I was totally not up for this till I heard LOA

 

[lolzgreg]

I would definitely have a cabinet for stage volume/feel at the very least. You can't always trust you'll have a good monitor mix, but you'll always know how your rig sounds in various situations. Really take the time to find your best speaker/sweet spot, mark it off with tape, and insist (kindly) that the engineer mic the speaker there.