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[topshot]

Topshot, I admire the strength of your convictions, even if I don't entirely agree with them - you seem to have understood the point of Jesus' sermons, which is lost on far too many "Christians".

Unfortunately, I have to agree with you on the lost part as my last post indicates. Most people think you just have to go to church and be a good person when it's all about a relationship with Jesus. I was one of those until I finally "saw the light" as it were. Actually I heard it explained finally and it wasn't in a church. That's what bothers me most - very few churches explain God's grace and plan of salvation in terms people can understand if they even do it at all.

I enjoy thoughtful discussion because it challenges me.

And you're welcome. It was a good show.

Peace

 

[jaimek]

hat's what bothers me most - very few churches explain God's grace and plan of salvation in terms people can understand if they even do it at all.

Yeah, you'd think God would a) have stated it a little more clearly and b) not have allowed the message to have become muddied by translations and human interpretation over the years, rather than leaving people to fend for themselves and missing the ball.

You have no way of knowing if what you're reading is what was truly meant when it came down the pipes thousands of years ago. You have to wing it just like everyone else.

Me, I don't have to worry about it.

 

[topshot]

Yeah, you'd think God would a) have stated it a little more clearly and b) not have allowed the message to have become muddied by translations and human interpretation over the years, rather than leaving people to fend for themselves and missing the ball.

You have no way of knowing if what you're reading is what was truly meant when it came down the pipes thousands of years ago. You have to wing it just like everyone else.

Let's assume there are human errors that have been introduced. The basic beliefs and doctrines of the faith are still there. It makes little difference if one writer felt Jesus healed 1 blind man and another thinks he healed 2. It makes little difference if you're sprinkled or submersed.

I think the bigger problem is most Christians don't read the Bible (even in church!). Some who do read it like the Sunday paper also rather than paying attention to what they're reading. I know I've experienced both problems in the past and still have some trouble with it at times, which really irritates me.

While it would certainly have been nice if there was one 'Book of Salvation' included rather than many books with the references strewn throughout, I think many would still have difficulty simply because we can't believe it is that easy.

Peace

 

[jaimek]

Let's assume there are human errors that have been introduced. The basic beliefs and doctrines of the faith are still there.

Or, if you're a cynic like me, you wonder what else they got wrong that isn't as obvious as various factual errors like hares chewing cud. Considering that accurate interpretation is apparently essential to your future once you've shuffled off this mortal coil, I should think people would want to have more clear-cut instructions. It shouldn't be an easy ride, but you should at least be spared conflicting views.

And even if the "spirit" of things is all that's important, there's still the Old Testament, which certainly doesn't paint a very positive picture. Most people like to tell me that "it doesn't count" - they just follow the New Testament.

...which representative of the greater problem: people pick and choose what's convenient for them to believe. Which is all well and good on a personal level, but getting everyone on the same page about ANY topic pertaining to Christianity is nigh impossible.

I figure if there is a god, he'll sort it all out in the end, and if he's the sort of god to punish his followers because the instructions got mucked up over the millennia, then he wasn't worth worshipping in the first place.

 

[Cheyanne]

And IMO the utmost truth of any religion:

Faith is what is inside of a person; no book, no other person, nothing, can tell someone what is true, real, and right, as one's own heart can..

Which prettymuch makes all the above irrelevant teehee

 

[Oogadee Boogadee]

I figure if there is a god, he'll sort it all out in the end, and if he's the sort of god to punish his followers because the instructions got mucked up over the millennia, then he wasn't worth worshipping in the first place.

So beautifully said....

 

[topshot]

Or, if you're a cynic like me, you wonder what else they got wrong that isn't as obvious as various factual errors like hares chewing cud. Considering that accurate interpretation is apparently essential to your future once you've shuffled off this mortal coil, I should think people would want to have more clear-cut instructions. It shouldn't be an easy ride, but you should at least be spared conflicting views.

And even if the "spirit" of things is all that's important, there's still the Old Testament, which certainly doesn't paint a very positive picture. Most people like to tell me that "it doesn't count" - they just follow the New Testament.

...which representative of the greater problem: people pick and choose what's convenient for them to believe. Which is all well and good on a personal level, but getting everyone on the same page about ANY topic pertaining to Christianity is nigh impossible.

I figure if there is a god, he'll sort it all out in the end, and if he's the sort of god to punish his followers because the instructions got mucked up over the millennia, then he wasn't worth worshipping in the first place.

Well, I see rabbits eating grass close enough to them chewing cud. I don't know Hebrew to know what the word really meant back then.

While the NT is more important because that's where we learn about Jesus Christ, the OT should not be discarded. There is still much to be learned from the successes and (mostly) failures of the Israelites.

I think you're last paragraph is correct. If someone hasn't heard the gospel presented in a manner they can understand so they can make the choice of whether to accept Christ or not, I don't believe they go to hell. I can't think of any Scriptures right now to back that up, but I know I've seen some. However, I also think there are people that have heard and just don't get it. I really can't say where the line is drawn, but I would tend to agree with you.

Peace